Damned eyes

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Packard

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My eyesight as a youngster was Ted Williams-like. Much better than 20/20. But it is no longer. I don't require glasses for driving, but I do for reading. And I cannot really see the sight picture well enough to aim. I still can shoot well when wearing reading glasses, especially older weaker ones that put the focus further away on the front sight.

So I thought I'd try using bifocals. I could wear them all the time and use the reading area for shooting. The problem with that is that I have to tilt my head back to see out of the reading area. The alters my entire shooting posture, which normally resembles the posture of the bad-guy target. Head down and a bit forward, shoulders extended forward to the two hand hold.

At 30 feet I can usually keep all my shots (from a Glock 27) in a 2 to 3 inch circle in the center of the black using my bad-guy posture.

After several tries using the bifocal posture the best I can do is a 6 to 10 inch group at that same distance.

Has anyone ever been successful using bifocals for shooting, or should I give up and just use the reading glasses?

At this time I have one of those granny neck ropes and the reading glasses are hanging from my neck for rapid access.
 
I wear no-line bifocals which actually have three corrections ... near (reading), arms length (car dash board gauges and handgun :D), and far distance. They work much better than reading glasses. I have this set up on my "inside" glasses and on a pair of very nice (and expensive) Wiley-X wrap around sunglasses.
 
I too have the no-line bifocals and agree its much better than reading glasses for shooting. Compounding my situation, at least in my mind, is being left eye dominate shooting right-handed. Lets not even talk about that! My solution is a couple of things. CT laser grips are a great aid to me. Expensive experiment I know, but is a sure fire remedy for me inside and dark environment. Outside they are of little use. My second solution is point shooting, that really works also, point shooting is great inside or outside and the closer the better. 'Course practice, and more practice with both methods is the answer. I feel comfortable w/either method, and that is a very nice feeling. Hope this helps. :)
 
everReady Rob said:
I too have the no-line bifocals and agree its much better than reading glasses for shooting. Compounding my situation, at least in my mind, is being left eye dominate shooting right-handed. Lets not even talk about that! My solution is a couple of things. CT laser grips are a great aid to me. Expensive experiment I know, but is a sure fire remedy for me inside and dark environment. Outside they are of little use. My second solution is point shooting, that really works also, point shooting is great inside or outside and the closer the better. 'Course practice, and more practice with both methods is the answer. I feel comfortable w/either method, and that is a very nice feeling. Hope this helps. :)
Click to expand...

I'm left eye dominate/right handed also. I've found that shooting a handgun is no problem, just a slight tilt of the head....actually I don't even notice. Point shooting is easy..just need to practice and be comfortable with it.
 
I like using iron sights and I have had good results using old prescriptions. I heard this remedy on the net and it works for me. On a related note, Grant Cunningham, in his book, "The Gun Digest Book of the Revolver," talks about focusing on the target while looking through the sights and he gets good results.
 
It sounds like you need to find an optometrist that is well wersed in the shooting sports like we have here in Billings Montana. He encourages you to bring in your firearms to make sure that you have what you need and will give you the visual acuity that you want.
Randy
 
My vision has been deteriorating for 20 years, and now in my mid-50's I realize that I've been point-shooting more than aiming for several years, because I can't see the sights. Reading glasses don't work because anything more than a few feet away is blurry, and I'm convinced that only an optometrist will be able to help.

Fortunately, I can practice enough that even point-shooting works fine out to 20 yards or so.
 
I used to have the same problem....

... and I knew that glasses would help, but being a thrifty yankee sort, I made my own.

2074-beer-goggles.jpg


Pretty much good these days... :)
 
tguil said:
I wear no-line bifocals which actually have three corrections ... near (reading), arms length (car dash board gauges and handgun :D), and far distance. They work much better than reading glasses. I have this set up on my "inside" glasses and on a pair of very nice (and expensive) Wiley-X wrap around sunglasses.
Click to expand...

This does not make sense to me. The far distance means you are focusing on your target, when I need to focus on the front sights, not the target.
 
My vision mirrors yours. At 40 my vision tested at 20/10, today at near 57 it still tests 20/30 for distance. However, I've lost the ability to focus on anything closer than 3 feet, so readers are a constant companion.

What I've learned is that for Defense small groups are neither possible or likely practical. What is required isn't small impressive groups but groups that are EFFECTIVE and there is some who believe that a larger grouping may prove more effective than a tiny grouping because it produces wounding over a larger area. To be blunt, shooting a 2 to 3 inch group at 30 feet is still ranging on impressive but may actually be slightly less effective than a 4 or 5 inch group. I would suggest that you stop shooting to impress and speed up your rate of fire.

I also benefited from some training from a local Police Instructor. Who BTW, turned me on to the idea that larger groups may prove more effective. One tip he bave me was to NOT focus on the front sight, instead focus on one single spot on the target while maintaining awareness of the sights. Basically, pick a spot on the target and then fire when the sights "seemed" to be in line. I would call this Sight Aware Point Shooting and it's something that most of us can do even if we don't have the ability to put the sights in focus. As for the benefit, if you focus your gaze on just one point on the target your gaze doesn't shift by chasing the sights on the gun during recoil and you don't have to re-aquire the target with your gaze. Spend a bit of time drilling using this method and you'll find out pretty quickly that your firing rate with improve by a lot and your accuracy won't fall off very much at all. For me my firing rate went from 1.5 seconds per shot to under 7/10's in just one training session. Further practice using this method has resulted in my split times dropping down to less than 1/2 second.

As a result I've devided my shooting practice into distinctly seperate types of practice. All of my defensive practice is now Sight Aware Point Shooting at 15 yards or less. As for precision shooting, for that I have 3 revolvers equipped with J Point Reflex sights and those do work well for precision shooting even when our eyes won't allow us to see iron sights clearly anymore. As for using readers on the range, the only time I do that is when checking the sights on a new handgun.
 
Same problem. For recreational shooting I use 1x red dot. 1x red dot is a pleasure to shoot with because all that is required is to focus on the target. For defense practice, fuzzy iron sights are ok because I'm not trying to make small groups on paper.
 
Red Dot / Ultra Dot.

ChattanoogaPhil said:
Same problem. For recreational shooting I use 1x red dot. 1x red dot is a pleasure to shoot with because all that is required is to focus on the target. For defense practice, fuzzy iron sights are ok because I'm not trying to make small groups on paper.
Click to expand...

A Red Dot is a good idea...

I use them on a couple of EBR's with good results.

BushmasterXM15003.jpg


Hint: Get the 3 MOA dot size. The 5's are a little faster to acquire, but cover too much of the target for precise shooting.

BushmasterXM15001.jpg


Drew
 
I will be 58 in a few weeks and just started wearing reading glasses about 3 years ago. Now I can't read squat without them! About a year ago I started having problems shooting as well. I could not see the sights clearly, so I went to the Eye Doctor with a toy gun to get a special pair of shooting glasses. I also told him that my usual shooting distance with handguns are at 50 feet. I enhanced the sights on the toy pistol so they are just like the S&W sights (glued an actual S&W sight on it) and kept trying different lenses until the front sights were perfectly clear. At that point I had perfect sight vision, but could not see the target, so I had to slowly back off the prescription until the sights were still pretty clear and I could see the target adequately enough to shoot. They made these glasses up for me and I can shoot better now than I have for the past 10 years! Now I am upset that I waited so long, but since my eyes changes so slowly over the years I did not realize I how much of a disadvantage I was at. These glasses are designated for shooting only and are useless for anything else anyway, but I am a very happy camper now!

Oh......
I did try the "red dots" and let's just say they are not for me.

Chief38
 
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I do a lot like scooter- mostly point-shooting practice. I keep thinking I won't have time to aim anyway, if SHTF, so why work on tight groups? I do fire some using both sights, but the vast , ajority of the time it's point-shooting, both hands, waist-high, chest-high- sideways etc.
 
scooter123 said:
...What I've learned is that for Defense small groups are neither possible or likely practical. What is required isn't small impressive groups but groups that are EFFECTIVE and there is some who believe that a larger grouping may prove more effective than a tiny grouping because it produces wounding over a larger area. To be blunt, shooting a 2 to 3 inch group at 30 feet is still ranging on impressive but may actually be slightly less effective than a 4 or 5 inch group. I would suggest that you stop shooting to impress and speed up your rate of fire....
Click to expand...

This does not work for me. Possibly because I was on the rifle team in high school where we shot at tiny black dots 50 feet away (this was before 10 meter shooting was in vogue).

For me, I have to hit exactly where I am aiming or I feel no sense of satisfaction. The discipline that allows that sort of shooting also trains your hand to point in rather precise manner so faster shooting is improved too.

So, a laser might make sense to me, but the loose groups will not work for me.

Thanks for all the input. For the time being I will stick with the granny string holding my reading glasses at the ready.

Regards,


Packard
 
I've posted this before, but other than reading glasses, visiting a safety glasses supplier can be of great assistance. There's a lens grind known as the mechanics grind that places a bifocal lens at the top of the lens and at the bottom with distance vision in the middle. To use it, just tilt the head slightly forward, and there's your sights.

This can also be done with trifocals with the intermediate lens grind up top. My shooting glasses are +1.5 up top, distance vision in the middle and +2.5 at the bottom for up close.

For those with vanity issues, safety glasses don't look like birth control glasses anymore unless you're really cash strapped or terminally cheap. And yes, you can wear them as daily specs.
 
Packard said:
So I thought I'd try using bifocals. I could wear them all the time and use the reading area for shooting. The problem with that is that I have to tilt my head back to see out of the reading area. The alters my entire shooting posture, which normally resembles the posture of the bad-guy target. Head down and a bit forward, shoulders extended forward to the two hand hold.
Click to expand...

Me too. It also made the grip safety on my old M40 so-so.

So I got "vocational" glasses (aka trifocals)
The long distance is in the middle and the upper is "plus one" i.e. Focuses near my fingertips. The target is blurry, but that is OK.
 
Have you tried the XS Big Dot sights? They are dead simple to use and that big front sight is easy even for my old less than stellar eyes to see.
 
A scope is the answer. But shooting is one thing and self defense is another. I wear monovision contacts and recently tried to switch eyes and couldn't do it. So I'm right handed, but my left lense is for distance. I can shoot well at a target, but must use my left eye. My no line bifocal glasses work well, but in a self defense situation I will not have the glasses and will put three shots on center of mass as best I can.
 
DustyJacket said:
Me too. It also made the grip safety on my old M40 so-so.

So I got "vocational" glasses (aka trifocals)
The long distance is in the middle and the upper is "plus one" i.e. Focuses near my fingertips. The target is blurry, but that is OK.
Click to expand...

So you use the upper section for shooting, and it is a reduced diopter compared to your regular reading glasses (which I assume is the lower section)?

This sounds like it would work. The middle is the "driving" section, correct?

Let me know.

P.S.: I buy my glasse on-line. I was a little hesitant but the difference in cost ($450.00 locally, to $88.00 on-line) maked me take a chance. It worked out great. See: Buy Prescription Eyeglasses Online | Mens Womens Fashion | EyeBuyDirect.com
 
I too wear the blended "tri-focals" I also have an astigmatism.. I am right handed but left eye dominant and my problem is that If I have my glasses on to shoot (which I do because eye protection at the ran ge is mandatory) and If I am out and about I usually have glasses on......when I aim with my left eye (the dominant one) the front sight is blury...If I aim with the right eye, the front sight is a bit more clear but my sight picture is off and I have to compensate my aim....at the range compensation is fine...but for defensive shooting, it sucks because you dont have time to take careful aim...you have to aquire the target quickly and shoot......if I dont have glasses on the left eye focuses on the front sight and its very clear......it is miserable not being a perfect 20/20...but ah that is life.
 
I'm going to take a ride over to Barnes and Noble. They have reading glasses you can try on.

My regular reading glasses (also corrected for astigmatism) is a +2. I have some old glasses that I think are 1.25 but I'm not sure. They work OK.

I want the weakest correction that allows good vision on the sights as that will leave the distance in greater sharpness. I will extend my arm and see which one allows me to see my thumb and the tip of my pointer finger. That represents the sights on my Glock 27. Once I have that I will go on line and order the trifocals.

Another advantage to this is that I have mounted my GPS high on the windshield so that the head liner acts as a shade to the screen. It is closer to me than when it was on the dash. But up high is problematic with bifocals, with the trifocals I think it would be better.

By the way, this is an excellet spot for the GPS. I have it in the center near the rearview mirror as high as I can make it. To turn it on or off I need to swivel it toward the windshied to access the on/off button. But it is closer to me than before, and it almost never gets washed out due to sunlight hitting the screen.

Thanks for all the replies.

Have a happy holiday everyone. And remember yesterday was the winter solstice and each day that follows it will be longer and each night will be shorter. We are heading inexorably towards summer! (Unless you live south of the equator; then you are out of luck.)
 
I have the "old eyes" issues. Shooting glasses specifically for iron sights are the ticket. A gun goes with me to the optometrist and my right eye (I'm right handed) gets a lense so my depth of field begins at the front sight. The rear sight isn't crisp, the front is and the target is fuzzy. It's interesting to see how your depth of field changes as your optometrist changes the correction while you're looking thru your sights. Left lense is my normal distance prescription. It's not a perfect solution but there's no way to lose 40 yrs.

Other than shooting glasses (or a red dot) the other thing that helps a lot is opening up (enlarging) the rear sight notch. It goes a long way to giving better sight definition with "old eyes". My 2 1/2" 66 is set up with a .100" wide, .040" FO with a WO rear with widened notch. This let's me see the sights "well enough" with my regular glasses even in lowish light when the FO and WO disappear.
 
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Packard said:
So you use the upper section for shooting, and it is a reduced diopter compared to your regular reading glasses (which I assume is the lower section)?

This sounds like it would work. The middle is the "driving" section, correct?

Let me know.
Click to expand...

Exactly yes.
Upper for shooting.
Middle for driving and long distance.
Bottom for reading distance.
 
I put masking tape over the bottom 2/3s of my reading glasses and it turns out that the top 1/3 is the area of the glasses that I've been aiming through all along. So that is good.

It looks like 1.25 is my correction, but I want to go to the dollar store and pick up a 1.0 to see if that is strong enough. (You can get reading glasses there for under $3.00.)
 
Which dollar store has everything for a dollar? Dollar Tree? They have reading glasses for a buck, and I go in and buy 4,5,6 pairs at a time- some of em are easily broken, but for a buck?
 
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