Death penalties

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G.T. Smith

G.T. Smith

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Have you ever noticed that a lot of criminals, convicted beyond reasonable doubt, of a crime punishable by death are put to sleep like an old dog and the public really don't get the impact of that action? I think that as a REAL deterrent to crimes of that nature, such as mass murders, child molestation, and the like, public executions would let people see what happens when you commit such unspeakable acts. A long time ago people would get all dressed up, take the kids and a picnic lunch and go to town for a hanging. Do you think those kids were mentally damaged from the experience, or do you think it may have instilled a real respect for the law and taking responsibility for their actions as law abiding citizens? Would these public executions not save a lot of taxpayer money too. At least they would only die once instead of having to die in prison 3 times while serving 3 life sentences concurrently. Why hide executions from the public? just curious if I am the only one who hates horse thieves or what.:(

gordon
 
I think people would freak out and that would be the end of the death penalty altogether.
 
BarbC said:
I think people would freak out and that would be the end of the death penalty altogether.
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I agree. While the deterrent factor might improve with public showings, I think it would turn the minds of those that are currently blissfully ignorant.
 
I am a proponent of the death penalty in a theoretical sense. I just wish that there was a fail-safe way to insure that the wrong person was never executed. Unfortunately, there is not. I can't speak for other sections of the country, but here in the South, many people (both white and black, more socio-economic than racial) have been convicted and executed on flimsy evidence, especially in the first half of the twentieth century. Many factors have entered into this. One is the propensity for many citizens to trust their enforcement officers and prosecutors. If someone is accused by the powers that be, they must be guilty. Again, I imagine that is also the case in other parts of the country. Another often overlooked factor in the South is the heat. Our county has held a July term of court for as long as it has been a county, I guess. As is the case with most Southern courthouses, our courtroom is upstairs. It is hard to keep the temps below 82-83 degrees in a packed house even with ac, and I remember being up there in my early years when I would swear it was 95 degrees. I would hate to be on trial for my life under those circumstances.

As I say, I am in favor of the death penalty, and I think most people who have been executed were guilty of the crimes they were accused of. Certainly not all of them, though, and I can't think of many things worse than being jailed, much less executed, for something I did not do. I would rather see 100 guilty people let go than to see one innocent executed.

As far as the deterrence effect, I think it is negligible. I don't really see execution as a deterrent, I see it as punishment. I really believe the incidents when legally armed citizens kill or wound criminals in the act are much more of a deterrent. We only have one or two officers patrolling our county at night, but break ins of occupied homes are rare. Thieves know that there is a strong chance they will be perforated in a community where most homes contain a dozen or more firearms and people who know how to use them. One criminal was quoted on tv a few years back. His specialty was breaking in homes and shops in Columbus, GA. When he was asked why he did not break in the rural homes where he lived he answered, ""Cause folks in the country will shoot you."
 
I just want people like Alton Coleman and John William King incapable of doing further harm to others. I don't care if anybody sees it, so long as they end up cremated and in an unmarked grave somewhere.
 
sipowicz said:
Yes, I want to us to be just like certain Islamic countries...and public executions may damage their psyche, but at least it gives you something to do with your kids.
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sip, I don't believe that having a form of punishment that is used in certain Islamic countries would make us "just like them". And I don't think my great grandfather was living in a certain Islamic country. Maybe they got the Idea from 18 and 19th century America. I wouldn't take one of my kids unless he/she was starting to exhibit criminal tendencies anyway. got a lot of other things to do with them that a hell of a lot more important, like fishing and hunting and shooting. I am not a radical Islamist or anything. The subject came up in conversation and most of my friends said about the same thing as you did. People said that some innocent people could be executed, and that is probably so. Last I heard, they are always innocent, like Manson.
 
The Guillotine was dramatic. Imagine today with slow motion and freeze frame.
 
100% in favor!! It's a very effective deterrent for repeat crimes. Going public sounds great, but I'd be apposed to giving them any more publicity than necessary. I do, however, firmly believe that the victims family should be given the opportunity to participate, in some manner, in the deed. Dump the injection, bring back Ol" Sparky.
 
Mule88 said:
I think excecutions should be pay per view And the money given to the victims families.
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That is the best idea I have heard because even if they don't admit it, a lot of people would like to see a child rapist or mass murderer shot. helping to slow down the wussification of America. But if is against the law to even give your kid a spanking, then you can't really ever expect to see a firing squad or a gallows in the town square.
peace, gordon
 
I am definitely for the death penalty but when the evidence is so over whelming that it is fact. I would guess that anyone convicted of a capital crime has more than likely commited a similiar crime that they weren't convicted for. My opposition to being publicly displayed is it has already been tried. There was a sequence of torture that was done starting with a hanging or rather a choking. this is the time when the convicted would try to die faster by falling a little harder on the rope in which to break his/her own neck because of what is to come. Next in line would be the stretching table this is were your back and joint are pulled a part but you are not killed. then the convicted would move on to the next stage of being drawn and quatered in other words pulled north, south, east, and west. or suffer the ultimate of deaths and torture by pulling and winding the intestines around a spool while you are layed out on a table through a hole in your abdomin. Did this in anyway deter crime? the answer is no. I would say more crimes were commited. In other words what happened to the witnesses that saw the crime. I would say they were put under as well. public executions would be an open invitation for more excutions politically the more that die the more popular it would be. There would be hanging judges and more and more sever penalties right on down to cutting off hands for stealing food. We are tired of the crime but ask yourself why are the crimes happening? Why are the crimianls getting off. We all know who are not enforcing the laws and who are getting them off and letting them off. The government is not doing the job we elected them to do. Laws are made to make them richer not for us. As far as public executions we as a nation would be desensitized more than we already are. I for one don't want my children to see this side show. I think that the original capital crime and violence is enough. what about the families of the convicted? do they deserve to know this torture is happening to their loved ones. anyone ever had a loved one die and you konw they suffered like being pinned in a car wreck and burn to death while awake. Nobody wants to hear about that. Look at your own children and grandbabies sometime in their life they will make a mistake do you really deserve seeing, hearing, knowing about these things that are happening to your blood. I'd say no. I would say not the first but definitly the second public execution/ torture there would be a shoot out. I know I would be willing to die if that was my child there and take as many as I could with me that were there to enjoy the death of mine. I don't claim to know any of you but to the mothers out there, you have an inate instinct to protect your young. That tells me that you would be on the look out for the highest capacity weapon you could find and show no mercy when the bullets started flying. Don't believe me go to that little league game and listen to some other parent talk about that fat little kid that just happen to be yours. It'll make you lose your religion. I have often wondered for example the crime of rape even though it is considered a crime of violence if it did not have such a penalty would the majority of its victims be murdered afterward? Could we save more people from being murdered? I had a co workered whose wife was a 30 year old virgin from egypt. He told me that if someone were to rape her it was the families responsibility to kill the offender. First the husband, then father, bothers and the like on down the line. true or not sound like a pretty good idea. Getting back to the subject at hand would you torture a dog that bit you, or a bird that left its mark on your shirt. I would guess no so why do it to another human. I say make the killing as simple and quick as possible. Is the death penalty expensive? yes. Should it be? Yes. How much is the price of death? What should you do about it? How bout your part. See a crime report it. Spend time with your children and the neihbors children teach them early what is right and wrong. There is a saying "spare the rod and a father hates his son" nothing could be truier. Push for the rehab of the penitintuary, it's there for the prisoner's pentance don't let them go out being better criminals let them come out not knowing their next door prisoner. Make them work and learn, teach them morals and satisfaction. Actually take away their freedom and force reability on them. If you can't teach them leave them in prison so they don't get out and commit more crimes. Thats the end of my rant. Don't get caught up in the frenzy of someone elses vengance your conscience probably can't handle the after math take it for what it's worth.Doeboy
 
Tennessee has some sort of odd first offenders rule whereby some convicted of serious crimes get off with mild sentences and then their records are expunged after probation. We had a commissioner found guilty of spousal abuse (his explanation was that he "opened" the door a little too hard. The prosecutor then asked - 6 times?) He was found guilty and sentenced to 2 years probation. A 20 something year old pled guilty to felony manslaughter DUI after a passenger was killed in a drunken accident caused by the him (the drunk) - 5 years probation. Both felons will have their records expunged after their probation.

On another oddity: I've often wondered about litter signs that say: "maximum fine $500." I've always thought that should be the minimum!

Another wierd circumstance- offenders who have their illegal immigrant housekeepers buy thousands of oxycontin pills and they walk away with no punishment.

Makes one wonder about the deterent effect of punishment when it is so unequally meted out.
 
Excellent post DOEBOY1.I have no conscience when it comes to violent offenders though.Some "parents"also.

D.G.
 
First I personaly doubt that hardly anyone has ever been falsely convicted and exicuted in our modern system. I am aware that supposedly some old cases have been turned over due to modern tech on old evidence. Even in those cases they usualy had priors and circumstancal evidence that led the police to suspect them. Then when the 15 to 25 year old evidence is retested for DNA it probley is so old and degenerated that its inconclusive and the guy gets sprung. I know of a case in wisconsin where a guy was sprung only to do another rape/killing a year or two later with the same mo.
Spring a "100" 99% cases and let them go and it would be "interesting" to see how many killed/raped later.
As to the original theory of public picnic exicutions, I dont think it is needed. What is needed and would make a differance is just carrying out the sentinces immediately. Its a poor joke the way the system works putting people in a petting zoo forever even with a death sentence. I belive if a person is given a death sentence he should be exicuted within 3 days to a week max. You cant tell me a lot of potencial murderers, rapists etc wouldnt get the message. In short I belive either you can be trusted on the outside and if you cant, you should be planted. I still say there shouldnt even be prisions. Just holding cells for trials. On lesser crimes I belive in chain gangs and forcied hard slave labor if a light correctional lessen is needed.
 
As Barb said it wouldn't work,sorry to say we've become too soft and caring today,hell we strive to keep people alive that shouldn't be kept alive.

And what I'm talking about are folks who are on ventilators,cardio machines and a thousand other bits of equipment to stay alive and people are cheering "we'll win and keep you ALIVE!!,we'll beat DEATH!!" (massive cheers)

*Blah* don't you think those poor souls might be happier dead? :eek: our main problem today is no one believes in anything beyond this life and death just scares them silly,I do believe in something beyond this and I have no qualms about death,it's just another part of being human and working out this existence of ours.

And sometimes the worst thing that can happen is you wind up over there before you're supposed to......

And while I'm at it I want to point out I see this attitude in gun owners too,how many times have I seen a gunner say "oh,I hope I NEVER have to use it! that will be an AWFUL day if it comes!! :eek:"

Um,'scuse me junior but~so what? I dunna want to have to use my gun ether,but if I ever have to I just won't care,the person attacking me made the decision to do it,so the outcome is on their shoulders,not mine.

The death penalty is good,sometimes a human does something that forfeits their life and the only thing to do is end it for them as quickly and humanly as is possible.

But then...I am a man in a million,I have no fear of death and it doesn't bother me at all,and killing means nothing to me it just has to be done sometimes,while all around my fellow humans are repulsed by it.
 
The late Claude Brown said he was in favor of the Death Penalty for felony murder, as he put it "Being sent to prison means nothing to a ghetto kid, he gets all the opportunities he never got before." Thanks to
stupid laws such as the Civil Rights of Institutionalized Persons Act of 1980 prisons have become country clubs and health spas.
Also to be effective the Death Penalty should be swift. In January 1904 2 individuals robber and murdered a governess on the estate of a wealthy family in Burlington County, NJ. They were tracked down, tried, and executed-in March, 1904. On January 28, 1928 one David Ware killed a New Jersey State Trooper-slit his throat for all you gun control cuckoos. On May 6, 1929 David Ware "rode the lightning". On July 15, 1949 George Haigh was convicted as the "Acid Bath Killer" in the UK, on August 7, 1949 he "danced on air".
 
BLACKHAWKNJ said:
The late Claude Brown said he was in favor of the Death Penalty for felony murder, as he put it "Being sent to prison means nothing to a ghetto kid, he gets all the opportunities he never got before." Thanks to
stupid laws such as the Civil Rights of Institutionalized Persons Act of 1980 prisons have become country clubs and health spas.
Also to be effective the Death Penalty should be swift. In January 1904 2 individuals robber and murdered a governess on the estate of a wealthy family in Burlington County, NJ. They were tracked down, tried, and executed-in March, 1904. On January 28, 1928 one David Ware killed a New Jersey State Trooper-slit his throat for all you gun control cuckoos. On May 6, 1929 David Ware "rode the lightning". On July 15, 1949 George Haigh was convicted as the "Acid Bath Killer" in the UK, on August 7, 1949 he "danced on air".
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One thing I want to point out:while I'm all for the death penalty and quickly I want to be 100%,without a doubt,SURE they are guilty of said crime first.

If not I'm all for life in prison so we can try to sort out if this is a real case that needs for said person to die.

And if we find their not? let them go and when we find who actually did it hang them and give every worldly possession of theirs to the person who spent time for their crime.
 
I have been involved in many DP cases. I fully support the DP and wish the Judicial system would be more swift in executions.

However I get sick of hearing the flaws in the system from those that do not know the system. Has there been any innocent people executed? Maybe but it has never been proven.

The burden of proof is far more strict in a DP case. The requirements to get the DP is way different from a Life case.

Had DNA ever cleared someone from the DP? Yes but it does not mean they did not have a part in the case. I worked a case about 25 yrs ago where a lady was raped and killed. The perp was caught based on fingerprints on the weapon. He was given the DP. A few years ago, DNA was found to clear him. Everyone assumed he was wrongfully accused but by his own admission, he was at the scene, helped the rapist but did not have a part in the rape. Yet based on DNA, the lack of witnesses 20 yrs later, he was released. But he is now back in jail for another major crime.
 
Some states are giving up on the death penalty because it is so expensive paying for all the lawyers over and over again. Even Texas has instituted life in prison without the possibility of parole. This has become a more popular choice for juries. I sat on a jury for a capital trial in Del Rio, TX. We sentenced the guy to death in 1990 and He is still alive, you may have heard of him - Tommy Lynn Sells. He will probably live another ten years I imagine.

Dwight
 
Well, I'll go out on a limb. After more than 30 years in court, I am no fan of the death penalty.
IIRC, the good people of Israel put Eichmann to death. (Hanged him. The pictures were in Life magazine).
At least through their legal system, the good people of Israel have not put anyone else to death. (I'm excluding "assassinations" and such, since they're in a rather nasty "low intensity conflict". These are outside the law and not part of their legal system).
Here's where I go out on the limb. Until the day comes that we can resurrect anyone unjustly executed, I will leave the ultimate punishment to a higher power. We will not just be judged as individuals, but as nations. I have enough that I'm responsible for. I don't want innocent blood on my hands.

"We will all meet again very soon".
 
When it comes to whether or not I will worry about someone else's feelings about seeing their loved oned hung, shot, electrocuted, stoned or whatever, I say too freakin bad!! If they don't like it, they should have tried harder to change their loved ones ways before it got to this point.

For crying out loud! Are we going to now worry about those people's feelings, instead of how it must have been for a poor old person to be beaten to death for $20 after living so long and contributing to society all their lives? What about how some poor defenseless woman who is brutaly raped repeatedly and then murdered? Shouldn't the punishment fit the crime? Why should some useless SOB get a quick and humane death while his/her victim suffered so horribly?:mad:

Let the victim's family have the first right of refusal regarding the condemned ones death. If anyone in the victim's family is willing to carry out the convicted's punishment, I think they should have that right, and I also think that public stoning's would be a big deterrent, because no one wants to go out that way, regardless of how tough someone talks ahead of time.

Children weren't emotionally scarred by public executions until some bleeding heart liberal loudmouth started trying to convince everyone that the diploma hanging on their wall some how made them more enlightened than the rest of us, and all those poor children who had witnessed public executions, then gone on to lead productive lives were somehow not all they could have been :rolleyes:.

Public executions send a clear message- if you don't want to end up like this, no and's, if's or but's, and no 10-15 years of appeals involved. Do the crime, and your done.

That's my opinion- YMMV
 
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