Been to Gander Mountain ... S&W M+P15 MOE (5.56mm) with Eotech 512 red dot $1600 ... VS BCM MID16 MODO Carbine (Midwest Ind) $1100 + RedDot $414 ...? I have seen S&W M+P15 with BCM uppers ... Is the BCM rifle setup with more reliable pieces? I could not compare the specs (and some were not to my understanding) and know what would be more reliable ...? I would appreciate any help or direction to any thread if there is dialog already typed; I am pumped to sling an AR!
Decisions on First AR
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red dragon
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Hello, welcome to the form.you should be pumped,ar15s are bad a**.first off S&W doesn't have any co-branded rifles with bcm listed for 2013.if its brand new,someone probably built it.i haven't spent any time with a bcm so i'm no help there.but i do own the m&p15 moe mid.i have put close to 2000rds through it,steel cased,brass,hp,sp you name it with 0 malfunctions. when i say i put 2000rds through it i'm not talking about at my local indoor range.i have ran this rifle in the snow,rain(freezing rain last weekend),mud,cold and hot.always functions.i've ran it 500rds without cleaning,still 100%. only things i've done is add a Bushnell red dot co-witnessed, moe+ grip and two small pic rails for a light and bipod if needed.its accurate,reliable and eats anything you feed it. i would highly recommend any of the m&p15 rifles. I'd say go for the moe mid but switch out the sight.just a personal preference but i'd take a aimpoint or trijicon over eotech any day. I will say this,my hundred dollar Bushnell red dot has held up this whole time too.wasn't expecting that.
I have 3 currently but my favorite right now is my
Colt 6920 Magpul--1100-- from Wallyworld.
Close second is my Bushmaster Varminter 90641 with
20" fluted barrel 1050.00 from my LGS.
For a first AR i would buy a Colt. The first and still
among the best.
I like these 2 because i like to shoot heavy bullets at
extended ranges --77 gr. Black Hills OTM--
and they both have twist rates to accomodate this.
Chuck
Colt 6920 Magpul--1100-- from Wallyworld.
Close second is my Bushmaster Varminter 90641 with
20" fluted barrel 1050.00 from my LGS.
For a first AR i would buy a Colt. The first and still
among the best.
I like these 2 because i like to shoot heavy bullets at
extended ranges --77 gr. Black Hills OTM--
and they both have twist rates to accomodate this.
Chuck
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MichiganScott
Member
I agree with chud333. My AR's are all specialized tools. I have two S&W's, and one each of Bushmaster and Rock River. If I were just starting out and looking for a general use AR, I'd go with a Colt from Wal-Mart. It will definitely hold it's value better than other AR's.
Bozz10mm
US Veteran
Also, check out Palmetto State Armory. They have some excellent AR's for decent prices.
When the prices finally came back to normal on AR's I bought a DPMS Sportical for $600 out the door. It's an entry level AR but it eats anything and shoots at 1 inch at 100 yards so I'm happy with it. Having been a combat soldier in Vietnam that carried a M 16 for 6 months this one works for me and I may pick up another one.
That said you sound like you would like something better than an entry level model so there are many good recommendations in this thread.
That said you sound like you would like something better than an entry level model so there are many good recommendations in this thread.
cyphertext
US Veteran
People need to quit with the "Buy a Colt, it will have better resale value", as that is no longer true. As soon as Colt rifles appeared in Walmart and other big box retailers, they lost that claim. If you paid $1500 for your Colt, and it now sells in Walmart for $1057, resale would be around $800 (if even, depending on sales). Chud bought a Magpul Colt at Walmart for $1100, Academy had them on sale the other day for $899!
Notice that Colt re-configured the LE6920 for sale at the big box retailers to cut their cost. They no longer come with the carry handle, instead use a Magpul BUS, no cleaning kit, no sling, and now have one 30 round Magpul magazine. They also now come with a standard M4 stock. That is quite a bit of cost cutting...
Notice that Colt re-configured the LE6920 for sale at the big box retailers to cut their cost. They no longer come with the carry handle, instead use a Magpul BUS, no cleaning kit, no sling, and now have one 30 round Magpul magazine. They also now come with a standard M4 stock. That is quite a bit of cost cutting...
When I bought my moe mid @ Gander Mountain they showed me an M&P moe with Eotech package that was NOT a MID. Check that to be sure, there is a difference. The MOE MID has the 1/8 5r barrel, the other didn't. The "MID"MOE stands for MID LENGTH gas system, which was also different from the EOTECH packaged version. In addition, the "package" price of the MOE/Eotech was about 200 less than what you were quoted.
A word on Gander Mountain and prices. They are high, but they will deal. My MOE MID was 1249. Without much effort I was able to walk out of there with it for 1050 O.T.D. It wasn't a one time deal either. I had purchased a new Beretta pistol a few months earlier that they knocked a hundred bucks off for me .
I can't speak to any other brand. I had an S&W M&P when they first came out and I have the S&W M&P MID today. They are great rifles and should you decide to purchase one you will not be disappointed.
Good luck and welcome to the forum.
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cyphertext
US Veteran
For the BCM vs. the S&W MOE, they are both mid length gas systems.
The BCM is going to have all of the "mil-spec" type features, if that is important to you. The BCG will be the full auto type, 158 Carpenter steel, HPT & MPI individually tested, and so on. Same with the barrel. Looks like it is a typical, standard type lower, M4 type stock, no sights, fairly standard rifle.
The S&W on the other hand, provides more features for the money, such as sights, all the Magpul furniture, Magpul marked lower with integrated trigger guard... lots of bling.
Neither rifle is truly "mil-spec", but to use the term the way marketing does, the internals of the BCM would be closer. I wouldn't say that makes one rifle more reliable than the other, but there have been more tests with a rifle built to "mil-spec", so there is more knowledge about how the parts will run together, wear, etc. You see a lot of BCM uppers on all manufacturers lowers, as BCM has middies and many others don't (looking at you Colt). Even though the S&W is not "mil-spec" it has many good features, such as the melonite treated barrel, and the S&W ARs have proven reliable as well.
The choice is yours, do you want your rifle close to military built standards, or do you want more features that change the way the rifle feels and handles? I would look around some though, as you can probably beat the Gander Mountain price.
The BCM is going to have all of the "mil-spec" type features, if that is important to you. The BCG will be the full auto type, 158 Carpenter steel, HPT & MPI individually tested, and so on. Same with the barrel. Looks like it is a typical, standard type lower, M4 type stock, no sights, fairly standard rifle.
The S&W on the other hand, provides more features for the money, such as sights, all the Magpul furniture, Magpul marked lower with integrated trigger guard... lots of bling.
Neither rifle is truly "mil-spec", but to use the term the way marketing does, the internals of the BCM would be closer. I wouldn't say that makes one rifle more reliable than the other, but there have been more tests with a rifle built to "mil-spec", so there is more knowledge about how the parts will run together, wear, etc. You see a lot of BCM uppers on all manufacturers lowers, as BCM has middies and many others don't (looking at you Colt). Even though the S&W is not "mil-spec" it has many good features, such as the melonite treated barrel, and the S&W ARs have proven reliable as well.
The choice is yours, do you want your rifle close to military built standards, or do you want more features that change the way the rifle feels and handles? I would look around some though, as you can probably beat the Gander Mountain price.
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Chubbs103
US Veteran
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the BCM rifle. Bravo Company builds excellent rifles. In the realm of hard-use, duty rifles they are one of the few I place (out of the box) on par with Colt. That is just my opinion, it is worth what you paid for it.
The OP mentions Midwest Industries associated with the BCM rifle. This confuses me as MI has nothing to do with a BCM mid-length unless someone has been adding/swapping components.
I am a big S&W fan. I like the M&P-15. My nod, however, goes to the BCM.
Chubbs
The OP mentions Midwest Industries associated with the BCM rifle. This confuses me as MI has nothing to do with a BCM mid-length unless someone has been adding/swapping components.
I am a big S&W fan. I like the M&P-15. My nod, however, goes to the BCM.
Chubbs
cyphertext
US Veteran
I noticed that too. He said it was a MOD 0, which comes with a Magpul MOE handguard.
red dragon
Member
Its crazy to here ya'll talk about walmart having ar15s.most walmarts near me only carry black powder guns.there are a few here and there that sell bolt guns and shotguns,but i've never seen a ar15 at walmart. Do they sell handguns too?
The local Walmart sells AR15s, but no handguns.
OP
A found a friend that has a connection on a S&W M+P15 MOE Mid for under $900 ... I think I will purchase just to get the rifle in my hands! Extras to follow ... Train with iron sights first if equipped ...? Of course first money saved to get ammo ...!
trout25red
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Wally Worlds in Louisiana sell them, except where I live. The animals in New Orleans after Katrina ruined it for us. But if you just drive 30 miles away from the city, you can shop black rifles all day long at Wally World.
Ibmikey
Member
If your decision has not been made as yet BCM is a quality rifle, Palmetto State Armory has "premium" grade that are awesome, S&W has many models , Del-Ton gets an A...and all are quality parts....you can spend more....or less but at some point you need to handle the rifles and then make your own decision.
OP
Have not pulled the trigger, yet ...! Finally finished reading the Chrome vs Melonite thread ... good grief! My choice was narrowed down to the M&P15X ... Chrome lined barrel. I can appreciate the accuracy elements. The melonite coating though ..., if the weapon would require some type of adverse conditions or storage, appeals to me. Yet, real world might preclude such environments (salt water for example). Any other words of advise?
Bcm makes very high products. However they are setup shoot 5.56 (higher pressure ammo). So if u shoot cheap ammo it may not be as reliable. But generally bcm will be softer shooting.
M&PS are slightly overgassed which will be more reliable for shooting weak ammo likesteel cased.
Bcm is milspec and s&w is not completely milspec.
M&PS are slightly overgassed which will be more reliable for shooting weak ammo likesteel cased.
Bcm is milspec and s&w is not completely milspec.
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