Defective .45 Shield Magazines?

[Charlie Foxtrot]

Was trying to load a 6 round magazine with factory 230 grain .45 ACP FMJ, but the cartridges kept flying out the magazine. The magazine has around 150 rounds through it, is clean, and has never been damaged, but cartridges just won’t stay in place while loading.

I called S&W Customer Service, and was told a supervisor has to approve a request for a shipping label. I’m waiting.

Pistol had some other issues, such as night sights died while pistol was new, 230 grain Speer Gold Dots would not go into battery during break in period, and another 6 round magazine routinely auto ejected from the pistol when firing the first round.

Anyone else experience magazines that won’t hold cartridges?

 

[swsig]

This is the first complaint of this type regarding the Shield 45 I recall seeing on the Forum. A few years ago, early model Shield 45 magazines had problems with poorly designed followers which led to failures to feed. But this issue was resolved when S&W sent owners redesigned followers. In any case, the follower problem did not affect cartridge retention. My Shield 45 has nearly 8,000 rounds through it, and has never had this problem.

It sounds as if your magazine lips are too far apart. Whether that's a manufacturing glitch, or the magazines have been damaged post-manufacture, it is a problem that S&W should certainly want to address, and quickly. I can't believe the customer service representative would need to get supervisory approval to deal with your problem, because it's a serious issue. Please keep us informed about what S&W has to say. I hope they will come up with a prompt and satisfactory solution for you.

 

[Ramagum]

This is the first complaint of this type regarding the Shield 45 I recall seeing on the Forum. A few years ago, early model Shield 45 magazines had problems with poorly designed followers which led to failures to feed. But this issue was resolved when S&W sent owners redesigned followers. In any case, the follower problem did not affect cartridge retention. My Shield 45 has nearly 8,000 rounds through it, and has never had this problem.

What problems do they have? My 45 Shield built December 16 is fairly early and I have no problems feeding, except the first round on a full magazine. More than half the time I have to help the first round chamber, but no problem after that. How does one identify the poorly designed followers? Thanks!

 

[swsig]

What problems do they have? My 45 Shield built December 16 is fairly early and I have no problems feeding, except the first round on a full magazine. More than half the time I have to help the first round chamber, but no problem after that. How does one identify the poorly designed followers? Thanks!

Below is an earlier post with what to look for. Basically, the new upgraded followers have a vertical notch in the right front corner. The old followers do not.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/140786475-post5.html

If it turns out you have the old followers, call S&W customer service. They'll send you new ones for free.

 

[Eric300]

Sounds like the mag lips spread apart a tad. Are you sliding the rounds in rim first while loading, or, trying to push them straight down?

 

[sandog]

Maybe that's a new directive from management that customer agents have to get supervisor approval, all the CS agents I've talked to before say right away that they will send me the part I've asked for, no delays.
They sent me enough of the new style followers for all my magazines, as I had purchased an older Shield that had the old followers in the mags.

Agree with others that cartridges shouldn't be popping out the top, feed lips must have been spread.

Myself and a couple others have had issues with the Gold Dot bullets hanging up on the locking block, keeping them from coming up enough in the mag to feed.
In my case it is 200 grain Gold Dots.
One other guy said he was going to smooth the bottom edge of the locking block/feed ramp and try the Gold Dots again. I can't remember who it was or I'd send him a PM to see if that helped.

When that happened to me, I just quit carrying my Gold Dots for now until I have the gun apart again and can soften that bottom edge, and re-try them.
I have a bunch of the Winchester Defend JHP's so I've been carrying them instead.

 

[Fastbolt]

Might be a problem with the spring in that particular magazine. If the spring won't exert constant upward pressure (bent coil winding) while loading, then there's nothing to keep the rounds from slipping out the front of the lips.

If a wire spring has a heat treat problem, and/or a winding isn't formed properly, or the wire is unknowingly defective (materials), it might need to be replaced.

I've also seen an occasional magazine come right from the factory with a mag spring installed either upside down or backwards (or both ), and it wasn't identified until the mag didn't feed/function properly on the range.

Then again, I've also seen an occasional owner or issued user of some pistol unintentionally reassemble their magazines with the mag spring, and/or follower, incorrectly installed after cleaning them.

Could the mag lips end up being produced out-of-spec? Sure. I've seldom seen that happen, though, and that's out of magazines for more than a thousand issued duty pistols, and personally-owned pistols.

I'd not be surprised if it was more likely for there to be an issue discovered with either the spring or the follower, and have it be a coin toss between a materials/manufacturer problem or an assembly problem. (Magazines are assemblies, after all, and all the components have to be assembled into the complete magazine at some point. )

 

[Charlie Foxtrot]

S&W sent me a shipping label. I will post the outcome when I receive the repaired or replacement magazine.

 

[Charlie Foxtrot]

I called S&W for an update. Customer Service advised that they will send me a new magazine, but they are presently back ordered. No further information available from Customer Service as to what was wrong.

Just to follow up on some of the comments, the magazine I returned to S&W has the new style follower per the pics provided above, the magazine was never dropped or abused, its spring was in good working order & installed correctly. I had used the magazine with no issues prior to it malfunctioning approximately 2 weeks prior, and did not field strip the magazine prior to the session where I had the failure. The interior of the magazine was clean - I inspected it after the failure. The spring's strength was strong, and the cartridges I attempted to load came out with force. It appeared to me as though the magazine's lips were out of spec. Less than 500 rounds through gun using 3 magazines.

Thanks for all your replies.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

I have heard of general rumblings about cycling difficulties with this model. Most notoriously from Gun Test magazine. If true, I hope hope that it is not widespread, they look like nice guns.

 

[Dennis1730]

Performance Center Shield 2.0 45ACP - Failure to Feed

Occasional FTF with all four factory mags, 2 six rd and 2 seven round. Returned to factory, returned to me after polishing barrel/chamber. Problem still persists. Thinking bad mags but hard to believe all four are bad. Ideas?

 

[Fastbolt]

Occasional FTF with all four factory mags, 2 six rd and 2 seven round. Returned to factory, returned to me after polishing barrel/chamber. Problem still persists. Thinking bad mags but hard to believe all four are bad. Ideas?

What brand/bullet weight ammo you using?

 

[Dennis1730]

Norma 230gr FMJ and Winchester white box 230gr FMJ. FTF with both.

 

[Fastbolt]

Hmmm. Wish I could watch the gun in your grip while you shoot. You have experience with shooting small, lightweight .45's, especially light plastic ones?

It's not uncommon for .45's to become less tolerant of any shooter-induced issues as they become increasingly smaller and lighter.

One of the first things instructors and armorers like to check is the consistency of the shooter's grip stability (throughout the recoil impulse and slide run). Firm handshake grip and locked wrist. "Robbing force" from the recoil spring assembly being able to do its work, due to a reduced stability of the grip, can cause short-stroking of the slide and feeding issues.

Both major brands of 230gr Ball ought to cycle in any good quality .45, but they can also give you some felt recoil "snap".

If you shoot at a range where they have experienced range staff, instructors or a smith/armorer, you might allow one of them to shoot your .45, using the same ammo, and see if the FTF's occur when they're shooting the little .45 pistol.

If not, then it might be the "shooter-influence" involved, and not the gun/ammo combination.

If they have the same trouble, then I'd call S&W and ask for a return label, and include a letter carefully explaining your experience, the ammo used, and other shooters having the same problem, etc, and let them inspect your gun.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Dennis1730]

My brother has the same pistol, no problems. We're going to swap mags to see if the problem follows. Thank you for your help.

 

[Fastbolt]

My brother has the same pistol, no problems. We're going to swap mags to see if the problem follows. Thank you for your help.

Can you shoot your brother's pistol without the same problems?

Can he shoot your pistol with, or without, the same problems you're experiencing?

You talk to enough firearms instructors, armorers and factory repair techs, and sooner or later you can hear a rule of thumb for "problems". Day and day out ...

95% of "gun problems" are somehow shooter-induced.

2-3% of "gun problems" are actually ammo problems.

The remaining 2-3% of the problems are actually gun problems.