Defining a SHTF scenario

[DWalt]

Buy you gasoline, dental work, an electrician to wire a generator into your well, etc.
Bartering ammo or guns for goods and services is risky because someone may use the ammo you just traded to them for some insulin or penicillin to shoot you and your family, then take the rest of your ammo and other goodies after you are dead.

I mentioned that possibility earlier, but it could also apply equally to other trade items. Once anyone knows you have a stash of attractive goods, you become a target of opportunity. Best to have an armed guard or two present during the transaction.

 

[Smoke]

First rule of prepping is we don't talk about our preps.

I'm only going to say this back in March I told my wife to make note of the things that she wished we had more of.

As the supply lines have eased up we've made those things a priority. She also talked to her physician and got him to authorize a six month supply of her medications because none of them were narcotics.

The biggest problem we're facing right now you can't prep for. Our state is covered with smoke

 

[UncleEd]

I'm so cute and lovable that others
will be glad to share their essentials
with me.

 

[Bugkiller99]

I'm so cute and lovable that others
will be glad to share their essentials
with me.

Well, then I'm doomed.

 

[mtgianni]

Th
I also have admiration for Mormon preparedness. Some years ago I had a Mormon secretary who was active in the Morman prepping philosophy. The local Mormons would periodically get together and can food, such as rice, sugar, salt, beans, flour, etc., mainly staple items. I they kept a communal food storage location, but I don't really know where they stored what they canned. Can anyone explain how the Mormons handle their food canning and storage?

There used to be canneries that were regional that you signed up to use. Many of them closed in the late 90's or were scaled back. The last time we went in on something they were using Mylar bags, you ordered in what you wanted and when you were going to be there. A group got together bagged and sealed it and you paid for what you used. Individuals stored at home what they used.
I think they have regional warehouses they supple those storehouses from and do disaster aid and assistance. I read a blurb recently on how N Utah had a bad windstorm that knocked down a lot of trees. The Navaho Nation had been hard hit by Covid and relied on wood heavily to heat and cook with. There was a push to cut up the down trees and they were shipped to S Utah, N Arizona to get them wood. I guess green wood is better than none and assume it will dry quickly in an arid environment.
I was living in SE Idaho when the Teton Dam broke and they got food and shelter pretty quickly to those who lost it all, both FEMA and their church.

 

[andy52]

I've never though bugging out would be a good idea. Bugging in with a good defensive plan seems a better way to go for me because I live in a rural area.
1 I have plenty of firearms and ammo.
2 Food to last about 6 months.
3 I have a creek that runs through my property and a water filtration
system.
4 Garden and greenhouse
5 600 gallons of stored tank water, with a 12 volt pumping system and a
solar system that produces 7kw at full capacity.
6 I do have some gold and silver but consider that for more after the
shooting is over.
7 I consider this most important of all, several like minded friends. Lone
wolf tactics will not keep you alive long. Life would probably become
a feudal type system.

 

[Grayfox]

One more item I'd like to add. There's been a lot of talk about possible wide spread rioting and violence after the election next month. While I don't think it'll effect me where I live, it is possible that it could disrupt the normal supply chains for a while.
I normally do my grocery shopping once a month during the first week of the month after I get paid. However, I have decided that November's shopping will be done in the last week of October and I will buy a little more than usual. Ya never know, just being prepared.

 

[ameridaddy]

.... Might be better to hoard bottled bleach which could be used to purify water from whatever questionable sources it can be obtained.

I've found that bottled bleach deteriorates to non-effective after some unknown months, less than a year, just sitting around. I bought pool shock crystals, which are dry and do not deteriorate AFAIK as long as they are dry. You can treat thousands of gallons of water with a ~1-2 qt size container. Read up on how to do it or you could hurt yourself. It's powerful stuff.

 

[ameridaddy]

IMO there are two caregories of SHTF. The first is like Katrina where conditions are bad, but for the most part the rule of law is in place. The second is a wide spread civil war where the rule of law has completely broken down.

In the first case being a prepper with a deep stockpile of goods will probably get you through until things get back to normal(ish).

In the second case, from stuff I've read from a couple people that have been through it, there will be roving and pillaging gangs. Life will have no value. No amount of stored goods will be able to hold you over long enough to escape. The only things that will help you are a lot of luck, the determination to never give up no matter how hard it gets, and the willingness to do whatever it takes to survive.

In the second case, you can't stand watch 24/7, so it would be important to have a group of like-minded people at hand to share the duties necessary to get through whatever/whoever comes along.

 

[DWalt]

"I've found that bottled bleach deteriorates to non-effective after some unknown months, less than a year, just sitting around. I bought pool shock crystals, which are dry and do not deteriorate AFAIK as long as they are dry. You can treat thousands of gallons of water with a ~1-2 qt size container. Read up on how to do it or you could hurt yourself. It's powerful stuff."


I did a little research, and the information about the shelf life of liquid laundry bleach (6% sodium hypochlorite) depends on the information source and the storage temperature. Colder is better. Shelf life will be 6 months to one year, with a decline in strength of about 20% per year thereafter. At least that's what professor internet says. If that is true, I'd say that a two year storage of liquid bleach is about the limit. It takes very little liquid bleach to sanitize water, the recommendation is to add 8 drops per gallon. Of course more could be added if using older and weaker bleach. Solid swimming pool sanitizer (Calcium Hypochlorite) would probably have a considerably longer shelf life.

In any event, if one wants to keep a few gallons of liquid bleach in the SHTF locker for emergency water treatment, it should be rotated out with fresh bleach annually. It's almost inconceivable that it would be needed for water sterilization for a time period of more than a year. A little more trouble, but water could also be sterilized by boiling it.

I have read that the early pioneers would keep water sterilized by dropping a silver dollar into the water barrel. Might be true as silver is a strong biocide.

BTW, my second home, which is probably where I would go if I had any advance notice of a SHTF event, is located very close to a heavily flowing natural spring, so there wouldn't be any pure water availability problems there.

 

[LCC]

Living in the Central Oregon mountains, fire is our greatest concern. So we keep the following ready to go at a moments notice during fire season:
-$1000 cash and a spare 9mm semi with 5 magazines in the Suburban's ConsoleVault, two box of ammo in a back compartment, my carry 9mm and 4 mags will come along as well.
-two grab bags each, one for clothes and the other for Rx meds (10 days worth), personal kits, extra chargers for phones and tablets, extra glasses, covid masks, etc
-a wheeled filing cabinet with our important papers, passwords, insurance info, pink slips to vehicles and boat, backup files on thumb drives, etc
-two futons and sleeping bags
-propane stove, multiple lights, 10 gals water, hatchet, rope and cord, dog food for the mutt, extra batteries, etc
-a large box of protein bars, dried fruit and nuts, few other goodies

We never let our fuel tanks get below half full in either of our rigs, and we are signed up with the county fire watch for real time alerts and updates.

 

[duman444]

Last line in the book

Does anyone else remember the old Don Johnson movie "A Boy and his Dog"? And what the dog was good at?[/QUOTE]

Last line in the book, after a little cannibalism.

"do I know what love is, A boy loves his dog"

 

[Kinman]

Decades ago I veered down the road of uncertainty and got involved with a group concerning survival. The problem as I saw it was that you end up with too many Chiefs and not enough Indians, the natives get restless and things boil over quickly. Trust being what it is and the thing that keeps the military working is that you need to rely on each other for your very survival, no questions asked. Human beings suck at loyalty, Ego gets in the way.

 

[andy52]

Kinman you are very astute. If one is going to do this sort of thing each member needs to plan separately with the same goal in mind. Trying to plan in advance is just going to lead to disagreement.
If things go south then it's time to pool resources and in that event people are less likely to have disagreements at least in the beginning.
When the shooting starts it will be easy to tell who's in charge because not everyone has the skill set to do that.

 

[Kinman]

Battalion, Company, Platoon, Squad...I think the Romans had it broken down into 10's. E. Puribus Unum

 

[Stevens]

I have a fish pond with lots of catfish and bluegills, several acres for a good garden, lots of Birds, racoons, squirrels 'possum etc. My backyard adjoins about 25,000 acres of swamp full of all sorts of wildlife including delicious snakes and alligators. I agree, good teams will need to be created to survive.
Steve W

 

[biku324]

I never worry about this.

 

[Doug627]

You will know it when you see it. Be vigilant. It can, and will, come at any time.

 

[Muss Muggins]

BTW, my second home, which is probably where I would go if I had any advance notice of a SHTF event, is located very close to a heavily flowing natural spring, so there wouldn't be any pure water availability problems there.

Well, unless somebody drops a deuce upstream on a regular basis . . .

 

[SweetMK]

Well, unless somebody drops a deuce upstream on a regular basis . . .

The heck with a regular basis,,
A neighbor had cattle get too close to the source of his spring for a couple days,,

The county said that had caused the contamination that was still in the water, 5 years later,

The couple had a new born that kept getting sick, they traced it to the spring water,,

$10K later a deep well was dug,, the water was good,, THEN,,

 

[jimmyj]

SHTF: Husband or Boyfriend comes home early

 

[keith44spl]

If'n ya got more **** that you or your family members can carry on their back(s)...Your SOL.

.

 

[03hemi]

Ain't that the truth, Cajun Lawyer!

I worked Katrina as an LEO. The SHTF then.

The "underbelly" of New Orleans, the drug dealers landed in FEMA trailer parks moved here.
They were dealt with quickly and quietly. They found easier pickings in Houston.
Now, NO One wants to welcome anyone from NO.

I was in Baton Rouge at that time, no wonder. Baton Rouge has never been the same since. It's an armpit on a sweaty boxer now.

 

[biku324]

The heck with a regular basis,,
A neighbor had cattle get too close to the source of his spring for a couple days,,

The county said that had caused the contamination that was still in the water, 5 years later,

The couple had a new born that kept getting sick, they traced it to the spring water,,

$10K later a deep well was dug,, the water was good,, THEN,,

Beautiful, clear high mountain streams in New Mexico very often have sheep liver fluke contamination. NEVER eat watercress or drink from our streams!