DeGress Fancy Engraved Grips on Antique Smith & Wesson

BMur

Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2017
Messages
3,307
Reaction score
5,324
I’ve seen these grips on antique guns before. Mostly Marlins and Colt Newlines. Never purchased a set due to the high sticker price associated with these grips. Can anyone comment further about these grips? Did the factory ever install them on factory engraved guns?

I just got lucky and found a set on the internet pretty cheap. Photo 1&2 are my grips. Don’t have them yet. I honestly thought they were for a Swamp Angel but a little research suggests they are for a Smith & Wesson 1 1/2 2nd. I like them a lot and have the perfect candidate for them if in fact that’s the model they fit. They are most definitely rare.

Murph
 

Attachments

  • IMG_9534.jpg
    IMG_9534.jpg
    62.4 KB · Views: 153
  • IMG_9542.jpg
    IMG_9542.jpg
    59.8 KB · Views: 146
  • IMG_9538.jpg
    IMG_9538.jpg
    28.9 KB · Views: 129
  • IMG_9539.jpg
    IMG_9539.jpg
    90.9 KB · Views: 119
  • IMG_9541.jpeg
    IMG_9541.jpeg
    133.8 KB · Views: 89
Register to hide this ad
I wish I could find the same ones. They are fabulous ! What are they made of ?
 
Material

Patbar,
I just finished some pretty easy research on these. The original patent describes the material as being copper based with silver and gilded(gold plated). However, other base materials are possible. It’s amazing how much an engraved gun goes up in value with a pair of these mounted on them.

The patent April 28,1874 was applied for in Bloomfield, New Jersey by Francis De Gress but the office is listed as being in New York with the shop in Mexico City and sold primarily through the Major Distributor Wexell & De Gress in what is listed as a partnership.

I’m thinking that the grips were applied after shipped by the factory but it’s also possible the factory could have combined them with a special order contract. I don’t know but they are extremely artistic and command big dollars when found.


Murph
 
Last edited:
Possible copies?

I also thought the grips could possibly being copied? Especially since they are quite valuable?
If you look at the detail on the one scale having the patent date. The first photo posted?
There is no way you can get that detail in a sand mold. It would have to be engraved by a professional engraver as these obviously were. In my opinion they were cast in copper and then engraved by an engraver ( finished in detail) then plated in either Silver or Gold or a combination of both. NOT easy to copy these grips. You will also note that no two are exactly alike. They were most definitely engraved individually by a professional after cast. That’s exactly why they are worth so much. Individual pieces of art.

Murph
 
Last edited:
Factory records?

I’ve been researching further on these DeGress grips. It seems that they are seen most often on early Marlin, Colt Newlines, and on very rare occasion on Smith and Wesson tip ups. So early production guns mostly in the mid to late 1870’s.

What’s amazing is I’ve found absolutely zero factory reference to these guns with the exception that they were actually solicited to major gun makers like Colt and find their way onto “Factory Engraved” guns. That’s solely based on my experience on factory engraving on early Colts as seen in the posted photo’s. Also “claimed” by the sellers as factory engraved without a letter to back it up.

References for these grips is very hard to find and factory reference is even harder to locate. I wonder if records even exist for these grips. Still, they do find their way on very fancy engraved guns that in my opinion are indeed factory engraved. The engraved pattern seen in the photo’s is the same pattern that Colt used in contract engraving and also Colt Newlines do not have a locating pin for grips. The grips are custom fit to each gun and what centers them is the screw and groove at the top of the grips so it’s definitely not a one size fits all.

Murph
 

Attachments

  • IMG_9559.jpeg
    IMG_9559.jpeg
    141.1 KB · Views: 38
  • IMG_9552.jpg
    IMG_9552.jpg
    62.8 KB · Views: 40
  • IMG_9551.jpg
    IMG_9551.jpg
    53.8 KB · Views: 36
Last edited:
Factory reference

Factory reference is extremely elusive. I am cross referencing proven factory engraving by factory letter and it matches exactly what is found on the examples having the DeGress fancy copper plated grips.
Notice the photo’d open top 22 Old line revolver. I have confirmed over 15 with factory engraving of this exact same pattern. I’m convinced now that the factory did in fact install the DeGress grips on many of those found. Obviously not all of them but definitely some. Colt must have purchased several of these grips from Dexell & DeGress on contract in the mid to late 1870’s.

This suggests that Smith and Wesson did also purchase some of these grips on contract and install them on later factory engraved special order variations of tip up revolvers. Primarily the Model 1 1/2 2nd issue.

The open top photo’d sold for $8200.

Murph
 

Attachments

  • IMG_9566.jpg
    IMG_9566.jpg
    43.7 KB · Views: 49
  • IMG_9565.jpg
    IMG_9565.jpg
    73.3 KB · Views: 47
  • IMG_9567.jpg
    IMG_9567.jpg
    58.9 KB · Views: 35
Last edited:
Material?

Mark,
Authentic De Gress grips are in fact made of copper base material with some plating. Usually Gold/Silver but the base metal seems to be a common Copper theme. Nice gun.

Murph
 
More photos

I found quite a bit more information but still can’t find that elusive factory reference. The grips are found on many manufacturers. Hopkins & Allen, Otis Smith are also included. I also found more Smith & Wesson models including early 44 Russians and 22cal 1/3. They sure look factory engraved to me but I still can’t confirm it.

See multiple postings of photos found. Gorgeous gun and looks like factory presentation quality to me.

Murph
 

Attachments

  • IMG_9577.jpg
    IMG_9577.jpg
    33.8 KB · Views: 33
  • IMG_9579.jpg
    IMG_9579.jpg
    89.1 KB · Views: 34
  • IMG_9578.jpg
    IMG_9578.jpg
    75.4 KB · Views: 35
Last edited:
More photos

See Photos

Model 1/3. Gorgeous! Sure looks like factory stuff to me but I still can’t prove it.

Murph
 

Attachments

  • IMG_9585.jpg
    IMG_9585.jpg
    40.4 KB · Views: 34
  • IMG_9586.jpg
    IMG_9586.jpg
    39.7 KB · Views: 29
  • IMG_9587.jpg
    IMG_9587.jpg
    82.7 KB · Views: 33
Last edited:
Different Themes

The more I study this subject the more I’m seeing a specific theme for each and every model Revolver.
So each make and model received a special theme grip design.
Focusing on the model 1 1/2 2nd we see a knight’s head on the right side scale. However if you look closely you’ll notice each knight is looking in a slightly different direction. The scroll engraving is different on each scale in both depth of the engraving and overall appearance. Notice also that the boarder is different.

So the theme is the same but the engraving is unique to each set of grips. Very interesting study.

This observation supports that each scale was hand engraved from a cast blank having literally nothing on them but a solid copper cast scale with perhaps an oval bump in the middle.

Murph
 

Attachments

  • IMG_9568.jpg
    IMG_9568.jpg
    56.8 KB · Views: 32
  • IMG_9561.jpg
    IMG_9561.jpg
    65.5 KB · Views: 28
  • IMG_9569.jpg
    IMG_9569.jpg
    51.5 KB · Views: 29
Last edited:
Here is an example of DeGress pistol grips that are mounted on a Marlin No.32 Standard revolver of mine.

The grips show a dancing babe beating on a tambourine on one side, and scrolls and leaves on the other.

The revolver is nickel plated.

The frame, cylinder, hammer, and ejector rod, have remnants of a gold wash. The nickel plated barrel shows no sign of a gold wash.

The grips look like they might be bronze and also show remnants of gold wash.

I must admit, I got the gun because of the grips.

Regards,
bcowern

IMG-1147.jpg

IMG-1145.jpg

IMG-1152.jpg

IMG-1154.jpg

IMG-1151.jpg

IMG-1150.jpg
 
Last edited:
Schuyler, Hartley and Graham

Here is another premium engraved Old model 44 Russian with wonderful De Gress grips. The pattern is consistent. Notice the eagle clutching the snake on the right side scale. All authentic grips have a patent stamp. Notice also how well the grips fit the frame. Schuyler, Hartley and Graham Must have been involved with special orders that included these grips. I still believe the factory was also involved as well but this one also does not have a letter.

Murph
 

Attachments

  • IMG_9589.jpeg
    IMG_9589.jpeg
    144.2 KB · Views: 35
  • IMG_9590.jpeg
    IMG_9590.jpeg
    173.5 KB · Views: 57
  • IMG_9588.jpeg
    IMG_9588.jpeg
    179.8 KB · Views: 40
  • IMG_9592.jpeg
    IMG_9592.jpeg
    83.9 KB · Views: 23
  • IMG_9593.jpeg
    IMG_9593.jpeg
    213.6 KB · Views: 89
Close up

If you look closely you will notice an 1874 date stamp as part of the engraving! The engraving does not go through the stamp it goes around it!

This Russian must have been an early recipient of these patented 1874 grips! The grips are a perfect custom fit to this frame. A letter would have been nice!

Note: This engraving differs from the other 44 Russian I posted. The other one also lacks this 1874 stamp so the source of the high quality presentation type engraving is not the same.

Murph
 

Attachments

  • IMG_9596.jpg
    IMG_9596.jpg
    33 KB · Views: 25
Last edited:
This observation supports that each scale was hand engraved from a cast blank having literally nothing on them but a solid copper cast scale with perhaps an oval bump in the middle.

Murph

The more I look at DeGress grips with similar motifs, the more I think the grips were cast with much more detail than just an oval bump in the middle.

Changing the angle the grips are photographed at / the angle the light shines, will change the perception of the elements in the grips, especially the larger ones like the main figure.

I think most of the main detail of the grip pattern was cast in (leaves, scrolls, partitions, patent date, and main figure) and an engraver perhaps refined details.

This link is particularly useful in comparing two different DeGress grips of the same motif. If you Open Fullscreen and then enlarge, it is easy to compare the two grips.

Two Engraved Marling Spur Trigger Revovlers with DeGress Grips | Rock Island Auction

The backgrounds on the grips appear cast and are not punch dots from an engraver as on the frame and barrel of the guns.

Here is a link to a Marlin No.32 Standard revolver with the dancing babe DeGress grips similar to the one in post #13 above.

Marlin Firearms Co 32 Standard 1875 Revolver 32 Long RF | Rock Island Auction

A few more links to the dancing babe. All on Marlins.

Factory Engraved Marlin XXX Standard 1872 Revolver DeGress Grip | Rock Island Auction

DeGRESS GRIPS, ENGRAVED Antique MARLIN XXX Standard 1872 .30 RF REVOLVER
Gilded Age Pocket Revolver Dressed to the 9s


Regards,
bcowern
 
Last edited:
Came across this biography of Francis De Gress.

No mention his pistol grips, but interesting nevertheless.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Civil War Union Army Officer. Major of the 1st Illinois Artillery. He was born on the 4th day of February, 1841, at Cologne, Prussia, and when nine years old entered the Royal Military Academy at Bensberg, Prussia, where he remained until 1854. During that year he left the academy for the United States, and joined his father in New York. In 1856 he removed to Cape Girardeau, Mo., and learned watch-making in all its branches. At the breaking out of the civil war he responded to the first call for three months’ men, at the close of which time he joined, in January, 1862, as senior second lieutenant, Battery H, First Illinois Light Artillery, at Camp Douglas. On the 28th of February the battery arrived at Benton Barracks, St. Louis, to be equipped, and left for Pittsburg Landing April 3, 1862, having been attached to Gen. W.T. Sherman’s division. With his battery he took part in the battles of Pittsburg Landing and Shiloh, from thence in the siege of Corinth, the capture of Holly Springs, the battles of Chickasaw Bayou and Arkansas Post, participating in the siege of Vicksburg and all its battles. After the capture of Vicksburg he, on the 14th of July, 1863, took part in the siege and capture of Jackson, Miss. Capt. Hart, meanwhile, resigned and left the battery in command of Second Lieut. F. De Gress, the only officer with it, who commanded it ever afterwards. With his battery he participated in the campaign from Memphis to Chattanooga, and in the battles of Tuscumbia, Ala., and Mission Ridge or Lookout Mountain. Lieut. F. De Gress, whose term of enlistment had expired, was mustered into the service again as captain of his battery, every man re-enlisting as a veteran. On their arrival in Chicago a complimentary supper was given to the captain and his battery, at which Adjt. Gen. Fuller, in highly complimentary terms; presented Capt. F. De Gress with a very handsome sword as a token of esteem from the members of his battery, alluding to their various engagements and to the youthful commander. After predicting to Capt. De Gress a proud future, he presented the sword, as a token of esteem and confidence from the brave boys he had the honor and pleasure of commanding. Upon gold plates on the scabbard of the sword was an appropriate inscription, with the names of the battles and sieges in which he and the battery had been engaged. Capt. De Gress, in a soldier-like speech, brief and pertinent, acknowledged the unexpected present. At the expiration of their furlough Capt. De Gress and his battery returned to the seat of war, and were, May 1, 1864, assigned to the Second Division of Gen. Morgan L. Smith’s Fifteenth Army Corps, commanded by Maj. Gen. John A. Logan. They participated in the battles of Resaca, Dallas, Kenesaw Mountain, Nikajack Creek, Chatahoochee and all the battles of Atlanta, the battery being finally captured, the ensuing account of which appeared in Harper’s Weekly, Sept. 8, 1864: "Capt. De Gress, whose portrait is given on page 564, commands Battery H, First Illinois Artillery. The following gallant action is thus recorded by our correspondent: ‘On the 22d of July the battery of Capt. De Gress was placed, by order of Gen. Sherman, in such a position as to throw shells from his twenty-pounders into Atlanta. The rebels came charging through the railroad cut to the left of the battery. The supports gave way. De Gress saw at once that his guns were gone. He directly ordered his guns pointed left-oblique, and gave the charging rebels double canister, at the rate of four rounds per minute. Soon he had two of his guns spiked, and ordered his men to get away, remaining himself with one sergeant (Peter Wyman), using one gun as rapidly as possible. Still the enemy came on, and when within less than twenty steps an officer called to him to surrender. De Gress, who stood with the lanyard of either gun in his hands, shouted, "Certainly, come on!" at the same moment discharging his two guns, and called to Wyman, who stood with pincers and spikes, to spike under cover of the smoke and get away. De Gress saw the spike driven into the last gun, and as he started a storm of shot was sent after him. The sergeant was killed, but De Gress escaped uninjured. Gen. Logan, who was coming up at the head of Col. Martin’s brigade, was met by De Gress, who told the general that his guns were lost. "Oh, no, Captain," said the general, "Wood’s guns have been turned upon the horses of your battery, and I think those chaps will hardly get them away before I have this brigade charging clear over them." In less than a quarter of an hour De Gress, who had gone up with the charging column, was busy drawing the spike of one of his guns, which was very soon sending canister into the retreating rebels, the infantry officers near acting as cannoniers under the direction of Capt. De Gress, who has met with the sincere applause of the general officers who witnessed his gallantry. Capt. De Gress participated in the battle at Ezra Church, after which he was strongly recommended by Gens. Logan, Howard, Barry and others to the Governor of Illinois as colonel of the First Illinois Artillery, vice E. Taylor, who had resigned, which recommendations are now in the office of the Adjutant-General of Illinois. He also took part in battles of Jonesboro’ and the capture of Atlanta. At Gaylesville the army prepared for the grand march to the sea, Battery H, First Illinois Light Artillery being the only twenty-pounder Parrott battery allowed to participate, according to a special order of Gen. Sherman. Capt. De Gress was at the capture of Fort McAllister and Savannah, the battle and capture of Columbia, Bentonville, and arrived at Goldsboro’, N.C., March 25, 1865. He was present at the surrender of Johnson’s army at Raleigh, April 15, 1864, and from thence to Richmond, passed in review in Washington, and was mustered out in Springfield Ill., July 1, 1865, with the rank of major. Immediately after his retirement from the service Maj. De Gress formed a copartnership with several others and organized the firm of Wexel, De Gress & Co. They established themselves in Texas, with houses in Galveston, Brazos, Santiago, Brownsville, and agencies in several other towns on the frontier, and also in Monterey, Mexico. Maj. De Gress remained in Brownsville until the spring of 1868, and while there married Miss Isabella Greene, on the 26th of September, 1866. In the spring of 1868 he removed to the city of Mexico, whither his partner, Mr. Wexel, had preceded him, and established the first American arm-store, under the name of "Armeria Americana," by which name the firm was known all through Mexico. In 1869 he moved with his family to New York, leaving his partner in charge of the Mexican branches, where an office was opened. While in New York he established branches also in Central and South America. These he finally withdrew, wishing to concentrate all his capital in the Mexican trade. In 1872 he erected a house for his family on Chestnut Hill, between Bloomfield and Montclair, and resided there. In 1875 he exchanged places with Mr. Wexel, Maj. De Gress going to Mexico and Mr. Wexel to New York. On Maj. De Gress’ arrival business improved in Mexico, he taking advantage of every opportunity to extend the scope of his enterprise, confining himself not alone to arms and ammunition, but also to all kinds of machinery. He contracted to build docks for the government, as also arsenals, electric lights, telegraph lines, etc. In January, 1882, he effected a contract with the Mexican government to supply it with four million dollars in nickel coin. The business of this contract took him to Europe, accompanied by his wife and two of his children, the latter of whom he left at school in Bonn, Germany. After successfully arranging his affairs he returned to New York, and later to Mexico. Until this date he had been in good health, though soon after his return to Mexico he complained of indisposition, and finally departed for Vera Cruz, seeking there a change of air; from thence he repaired to Rimonada, where he peacefully passed away. His death was deplored by many; at the funeral, the Governor of the federal district of Mexico, the Minister of Finance, the Assistant Secretary of War and the Secretary of the Navy of Mexico being among his pall-bearers. Maj. De Gress joined the Masonic fraternity early in life, and at his death was a member of Bloomfield Lodge, No. 40, F. and A. M., Union Chapter, No. 7, Newark, and Damascus Commandery, No. 5, also of Newark, N.J. He was a member of Olive Branch Lodge, No. 51, I.O.O.F., at Bloomfield, N.J., and of the Grand Army of the Republic. His name is also mentioned a number of times in Gen. Sherman’s "Memoirs." He was one of the first vice-presidents of the Creedmoor Rifle Association. At the time of his death he was vice-president of the Mexican Oriental Railroad Company, known as the Gould-De Gress road. The remains of Maj. De Gress were buried in the American Cemetery, near the city of Mexico.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


DeGress's Battery, Union Army. Civil War veteran.

He entered the federal service on January 1, 1862, in Cape Girardeau as a 2nd lieutenant with Battery H, 1st Illinois Light Artillery. On December 25, 1863 he was promoted to captain and took command of the battery which then became known as DeGress's Battery. He was mustered out on June 14, 1865.

His family had moved to Cape Girardeau from Germany when he was 11 years old and he took charge of his younger siblings when his father died when he was 13 years old.

He received recogition during the siege of Vicksburg and was with Sherman on his march to the sea in Georgia.

At the end of the war he went into business at Brownsville, Texas with the company of Wexel & DeGress. They soon expanded to Matamoros, Mexico and in 1868 to Mexico City. From there they set up branches in Chile and Peru in South America. At first they sold firearms during the constant wars but after peace came sold farm implements and machinery.

At his funeral the pallbearers consisted of high ranking Mexican officials and foreign dignataries plus his wife and two children. His widow, Isabele Gordon, applied for a pension in his name in the 1890's in New Jersey. She frequently moved back and forth between the US and Mexico over the years.
___________________________________________________



pollock-trouphurt-003-captureofdegress-lg.jpg





Swords presented to Francis DeGress.

IMG-1335.jpg





Pistol carried by DeGress.

IMG-1331.jpg





Battle of Atlanta

battle-of-Atlanta.jpg





"Degress's Battery" . The 66th Iliinois Volunteers (Western Sharpshooters) retakes a captured Union Battery during the battle of Atlanta.

7568cdad827e0042c53f19af336a8a03-2209424644.jpg


Regards,
bcowern
 
Last edited:
Industry wide influence

Just a few more examples of how these grips found their way on many gun manufacturers products. Notice also totally different themes for each gun. Fabulous product and expensive collectible on todays market.

Antiques posted are a Hopkins & Allen XL3. Suggesting all XL series guns had different grip themes.

Otis Smiths No 41 cal( Beauty!)

Murph
 

Attachments

  • IMG_9570.jpg
    IMG_9570.jpg
    32.6 KB · Views: 11
  • IMG_9571.jpg
    IMG_9571.jpg
    67.3 KB · Views: 12
  • IMG_9572.jpg
    IMG_9572.jpg
    47.6 KB · Views: 8
  • IMG_9573.jpg
    IMG_9573.jpg
    84.7 KB · Views: 11
Without seeing the undersides of these beauties, I would venture the possibility that they were fabricated by way of the art form of repousse. Many military and sporting buttons were fashioned in this manner in that era, as well as serving handles on dinnerware, and other items.
Just my antique BFA popping to the surface.
However they came to be, they are just beautiful indeed!
 
Underside

I expect my grips to be delivered very soon. Once in hand I will post a photo of the underside.

Murph
 
Back
Top