Democracy - Where are we at now.

[31 Pump]

This is one of my favorites. From Alexander Tyler. No, he wasn't writing about the United States. This quote is well over one hundred years old. Tyler was writing about the fall of the Athenian Republic.


"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy,from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage."

 

[31 Pump]

This is one of my favorites. From Alexander Tyler. No, he wasn't writing about the United States. This quote is well over one hundred years old. Tyler was writing about the fall of the Athenian Republic.


"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy,from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage."

 

[Wheelgunner840]

That is a fantastic quote. I have always liked it, but can never recite it correctly and in it's entirety when I need to!

Thanks for the reminder!

Oh, and we are at the "Apathy to Dependency" phase IMO.

WG840

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

There is a big difference between representative democracy and direct democracy.
It seems to me when the people are allowed to speak for themselves they usually act in rather conservative and intelligent ways. I cite the rejection by the voters of Brazil of their government's attempt to outlaw private ownership
of firearms, the rejection by the people of France and then the Netherlands of the EU Constitution-all 400 pages of it. The BBC quoted
one Dutchwoman as saying this was the first referendum in the Netherlands history, she liked the idea and wanted to see it used more often. The Swiss are big on direct democracy.
In this country voters have imposed tax and spending limits, term limits, barred homosexual
marriage, enshrined the RKBA and generally acted in ways that the political elite would prefer they not. And I don't know of any welfare state that was enacted by popular vote.
People don't vote themselves funds from the public treasury, they usually vote to restrict the ability of the government to take money from them.

 

[Grayfox]

At the moment, I think the United States is more of a Dumb-mocracy.

 

[ingmansinc]

Blackhawknj,

Please explain the difference between rep. dem. and dir. democracy. I am not familiar with direct democracy. You refer to the Swiss, what do they do different?

 

[pharmer]

Between apathy and dependence, and just a little up the road from bondage. Joe

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Direct Democracy was the original form of Democracy-one man-or citizen, if you prefer-one vote. A good example is the Town Meeting still used in Vermont where at the beginning of the year the whole town votes on the budget and other matters. Initiative and Referendum is another form-Proposition 13, e.g.
Representative Democracy is what we usually have-you vote for a town councilman, a Freeholder, a state legislator, a Congressman or Senator on the Federal level, as well as for executives-mayor, county executive, governor, president. Here in New Jersey some towns-the one I live in, e.g. has the Township Committee system-you vote for members of the Township Committee, they elect the mayor from their ranks-sort of a parliamentary system. There are many variations on the theme. No governing body in the US uses a parliametary system like say the UK or Canada.
The Swiss seem to use the referendum system a great deal. Swissman can tell you a lot more about what happens there than I can but it seems the Swiss prefer to pass a lot of legislation by popular rather than parliamentary vote.

 

[AnthonyE]

Watch this:

http://www.wimp.com/thegovernment/

 

[31 Pump]

Originally posted by BLACKHAWKNJ:
It seems to me when the people are allowed to speak for themselves they usually act in rather conservative and intelligent ways. And I don't know of any welfare state that was enacted by popular vote.
People don't vote themselves funds from the public treasury, they usually vote to restrict the ability of the government to take money from them.

I'm not trying to start any fights here but I see the last election here a perfect example of people voting themselves funds from the treasury. Every current election is won by the candidate who tells the most people that he is going to take from the evil rich and will give them something. "Share the Wealth" People vote for the person who is going to give them the most and they don't care where it comes from. We are fast approaching the point in this country where half the people don't pay any federal income taxes at all. When they get the majority it will be the end of this country as we know it. The producers and investors will be in the minority and won't have a voice at all.

Glenn

 

[31 Pump]

Originally posted by BLACKHAWKNJ:
Direct Democracy was the original form of Democracy-one man-or citizen, if you prefer-one vote.


A good example of direct democracy is mob rule. Our founding fathers were very clear that our government was a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy. We are supposed to be governed by the rule of law, not the rule of man, even a majority.

Glenn

 

[ParadiseRoad]

...definition of Democracy...51% of the population oppressing the other 49%...



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