Designing the best possible defensive handgun shop...?

[Filbird]

While I've been around guns all my life, I have not shopped for a concealed handgun until recently, and my experience so far, coupled with what I've read on this and other forums, makes me wonder if we're doing some of this wrong.

How many times have you read a post where the fellow said something like, "I bought this gun, and it ended up not really feeling right," or "I sent away for this holster, but it's too big/small or doesn't fit the gun or doesn't quite fit the belt right, or the belt is wrong."

I go to one of the big local independent gun stores and customers are three-deep at the counter, racking slides and talking with harried salespeople who honestly could not possibly be experts on all of the necessary pieces of a complete concealed carry package.

In the end, it seems that most folks go through a long and expensive period of trial and error, ending up with multiple pieces of weaponry and assorted merchandise that did not end up being what they thought of or hoped for, and finally arriving at that combination of gun and holster and cartridges and belt that make sense for them (or, more likely, several different combinations, depending on the season and the clothing being worn). Seems inefficient. Does it have to be this way?

If we were designing the best possible defensive handgun shop (one that sold all of the accessories), what would it look like? How would it differ from the shops and processes we use today?

 

[ColbyBruce]

I have found that a well stocked police supply store is about the best place to find and try a variety of holsters.

 

[BarbC]

There's a great gunshop in Norfolk, Virginia, called "Bob's". They are truly a one-stop shop. They have a huge display of any firearm you could wish for, plus reloading, safes, cleaning supplies, holsters, etc. That's just the first floor. The offices and CCW classrooms are on the 2nd floor. The third floor is ammunition. The fourth floor is the indoor range, complete with rental guns. If you are truly interested in a gun for sale, they will deliver it to the rangemaster for you to try. The sales staff is terrific - patient, knowledgeable, and plentiful.

 

[Andy Taylor]

Originally posted by BarbC:
There's a great gunshop in Norfolk, Virginia, called "Bob's". They are truly a one-stop shop. They have a huge display of any firearm you could wish for, plus reloading, safes, cleaning supplies, holsters, etc. That's just the first floor. The offices and CCW classrooms are on the 2nd floor. The third floor is ammunition. The fourth floor is the indoor range, complete with rental guns. If you are truly interested in a gun for sale, they will deliver it to the rangemaster for you to try. The sales staff is terrific - patient, knowledgeable, and plentiful.

Wow, I may have to go to VA just to see this place. It sounds great.

 

[BarbC]

You can't get better. Bob's is probably the main thing I miss about the area.

Bob's Gun Shop

 

[cmort666]

Stonewall, off of Rt. 82 near Cleveland has an horrifically poorly (mostly UN) supervised range. At the same time, they have an excellent selection of holsters. On the day last year that I got my Ohio CHL, I went there and bought my Desantis Nemesis pocket holster for my Model 36 (great holster) and my Bianchi clip-on IWB for my Glock 19 (horrible). I actually didn't want the Bianchi, but they were out of the better holster for the Glock that I wanted.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Through the years I have seen a few really good shops, operated by knowledgeable people, well stocked with quality merchandise.

I have also heard folks talking about those shops (too expensive, high prices, etc, etc). Haven't we all known people who will go to the well-stocked store to see and handle what they want, then buy it at a discount place or on-line?

I believe in supporting the business people who make my life easier and better. I don't mind that a businessman is making a fair profit.

I have a few stores that stock my leather goods. One small operator keeps a dozen or so holsters on consignment, sells a few every month, takes orders for a few more every month, and pays me when the customers pay him. I also have a couple that order by the dozen and send payment with the order.

To open a well-stocked gun shop (not to mention a range operation) takes a huge investment in inventory. Even if the dealer is "floor-planned" by a few distributors, there is still a big monthly expense for that. The stocking dealer who provides what you want, when you want it, consistently, has to make a decent profit. Otherwise he won't be there next time you need him.

 

[Filbird]

Originally posted by LoboGunLeather:
Through the years I have seen a few really good shops, operated by knowledgeable people, well stocked with quality merchandise.

I have also heard folks talking about those shops (too expensive, high prices, etc, etc). Haven't we all known people who will go to the well-stocked store to see and handle what they want, then buy it at a discount place or on-line?

I believe in supporting the business people who make my life easier and better. I don't mind that a businessman is making a fair profit.

I have a few stores that stock my leather goods. One small operator keeps a dozen or so holsters on consignment, sells a few every month, takes orders for a few more every month, and pays me when the customers pay him. I also have a couple that order by the dozen and send payment with the order.

To open a well-stocked gun shop (not to mention a range operation) takes a huge investment in inventory. Even if the dealer is "floor-planned" by a few distributors, there is still a big monthly expense for that. The stocking dealer who provides what you want, when you want it, consistently, has to make a decent profit. Otherwise he won't be there next time you need him.

Those are fair points. I'm a runner and I've seen the same situation there. Folks will get great advice from the knowledgeable guys at the locally-owned serious running store, and then go off to Walmart or the internet to buy the shoes that the pros recommended for them. As someone said earlier in this thread, I do not mind paying for professionalism or knowledge.

That's actually where I was headed when I started this thread: thinking that the gravity of these purchasing decisions warranted MORE serious, knowledgeable, and personal attention from the gun stores than most people get... choosing and purchasing the best handgun and holster and belt and ammo for your needs ought to feel the same way that buying a well-made suit does. You ought to have that kind of personal attention, the same way that a salesman would fit you for an expensive suit.

 

[Practical]

The margin's on guns are not what an expensive suit's are I imagine.

 

[J274895]

Filbird,

I can see your point, however, when you're talking about an issue as serious as what weapon and holster you're going to chose for concealed carry, I think the catch phrase here is, "Due Dilligence".

My decision to carry was a long and drawn out affair that started about a year ago. I already owned a S&W revolver, but I knew that I did not want to use this as my primary carry weapon. The advice that was given to me is the same I will give to you. Seek out the local shooting ranges. Find out if they have pistols for rent. If they do, go rent some and shoot them.

The thing that amazes me is that I had originally wanted a carry weapon that is remakably different from what I finally settled on. The first thing I did was go into a gun shop and ask to see the gun I had wanted. When I held the thiing in my hand, my thought was, "This sucks!" It didn't feel right to me at all. It actually hurt my hand to hold it let alone fire it.

So, it was off to the Internet to research, off to the gun range to test fire weapons, off the gun store to hold even more weapons, then back to the gun range to test fire them.

I had originally wanted a Kimber Pro Carry II, and ended up with a Smith & Wesson M&P .40. It took months to finally come to that conclusion. But the M&P was the right gun for ME. I don't care if other guns look cooler or have more bells & whistles, I wanted what was right for me.

So do your homework. Go out and hold as many weapons as you can. Ask questions at the local gun dealer. Avoid the big box stores if you can. Test fire pistols that you think you might want to try. And remember, opinions are like a**holes- everyone has one and they all stink. Don't let some person's affinity for one gun model sway your opinion. Get what YOU want and feel comfortable with.

As for holsters, search the threads here. You'll get a lot of different opinions and reviews as well.

Good luck.

 

[Filbird]

Very sound advice. I'm prone to analysis paralysis, and to thinking that I can read and read and somehow come to the "right" conclusion, but I've come to believe, as you put it, that the decision is inevitably subjective, and I've just got to do exactly what you suggest - handle a lot of guns, rent a lot of guns, and figure it out that way. Thanks for an excellent post.

 

[J274895]

Absolutely. I shot I don't know how many guns at the local range before settling on the M&P. That was just the right gun for me.

And it still surprises me to this day how snobbish some people can be when it comes to guns. It's as if, they automatically pooh-pooh you if you're not totally into "their" brand of guns. I don't give a rats ass what the other guy carries. I love my M&P.

 

[Crazy K38]

well I am one of those weird kinda guys that thinks you can never have enough guns or toys for them. I do appreciate gun stores but if I am looking for a holster and it will be to carry the gun at least 55% or more of the time I will go with a galco. These holsters are made for specific guns so you know it will fit, made of great leather, etc. etc. and if I want a gun I read some reviews on a few guns and go with the best, generally all my shopping is done online because I can generally find a good deal on there and I don't have to beg the wife to go to the gun shop! But really it is like having your own gunshop at your fingertips.

 

[walkin' trails]

A good defensive handgun shop should start wtih employees who are honest and knowledgeable about what they are selling. They should be shooters, and should understand the concept of carry concealed. There should be a well versed armorer on board. Having a firing range attached is a big plus. There should be a big sign out front that says that valid identification must be presented and a background check completed in order to handle firearms. I really don't care if that is done, but it would keep the thugs and riff raff out of the shop.

One shop in my area carrys a line of Galco products. The rest seem to only carry the inexpensive synthetic holsters and mag pouches. In order for me to shop for gunleather, I basically have to order it online or by phone if I want something better. Having even a sampling of some of the better leather lines, or even the better synthetics available for customers to see and try out (with rubber guns) would be great. I carry two pistols almost every day and have found that sparing the money will not save you any in the long run. I run into those who admire my Milt Sparks BN55 until they find out how much money I spent for it. Then they start bragging about the twenty dollar paddle they use. Difference is, that barring a major catastrophy, my Sparks will still be holding my pistols ten years down the road. Same with the Alessis, Kramers, and Galcos I have.

A good shop should carry a well-stocked line of magazines and speed loading devices. A publication isle would also be nice if it carrys a good variety of gun magazines, as well as books and DVDs.

 

[glypnir]

I bought my 640-3 from the store near me that also has the range with all the rental guns.

It was used, so I tested it on the range before I bought it. It may have cost me $100 or more to do it that way, rather then on the web. But that's assuming that everything goes OK on the web.

I'd shot a bunch of CCWs at this place and at another rental place.

Then I bought a Kramer pocket holster based on recommendations here and from others. Not cheap either.

Buy the good stuff, from good dealers, do your due diligence up front, you can avoid the endless dance of bad choices.

I did.

Now sometimes, you've just got to live with something for a while to see if you really like it.

Did I mention the Kramer belt as well? Very useful for carrying even a pocket holstered revolver.

 

[flop-shank]

The store should be well stocked with reloading supplies and accessories. There should be experienced handloaders staffing the store.