Did any early 70's J frames ship with factory MOP grips? LETTER ARRIVED TODAY!!!

[big_gus]

I have had an ANIB Model 40 Centennial Nickel early L-prefix for awhile now that has a set of factory mop grips with the old style brass s&w medallions in them. These grips are fitted great-almost perfect to the frame. I believed them to be factory original when I bought it but have heard someone say they didnt know if factory mop's went that late from smith. I finally sent for a letter a week or 2 ago. I could be waiting awhile on the letter however. Does anyone know how late smith offered factory mop grips? My check was cashed a few days ago, what would be the expected wait time on the letter nowadays? Thanks Guys.

EDIT: Please see pics below in one of my replies, Thanks.

 

[Hondo44]

MOP grips have not been shipped on regular production guns since before WW II. Please recognize however there are exceptions to everything when it comes to Smiths especially on special order engraved or presentation guns.

Grips with the sunken brass medallions, actually gold plated brass, have not been made by the factory since c. 1920. Are your medallions sunken?

BUT, your centennial is a J frame. Grips that fit a J frame could not have been made prior to 1952 since the J frame grip size was not introduced until 1952!

If your medallions are flush to the grip surface they are modern medallions. How sure are you that they are genuine MOP grips?

The possibilities are:
New custom made MOP grips with antigue medallions if sunken.
New grips with brass modern medallions, and possibly factory.
New simulated MOP grips which have been supplied on some factory special production guns but I do not know of any special production Centennials.
A factory letter is currently taking about 3 weeks. You should know soon.

Please let us know what the letter says.

 

[big_gus]

Thanks for your help again Hondo44. These grips are definetly real mop without a doubt. They do have the sunken old brass medallions. I showed the gun to a long time very knowledgible member of the S&WCA that sets up at the gun show, and he was kinda stunned by them. He said he thought them to definetly be factory original grips and he had saw the j frame before with the old style medallions but they were far and few between. He looked at how they were fitted and told me that he believed they would letter but he wasnt no expert on them. I had saw an advertisement on here in the bottom of the box that showed a picture of a set of factory mop S&W grips wit the brass sunken medallions warning against reproductions so to speak. these look identical to those. I will add that this gun came out of a very nice collection that the dealer had bought at auction. Also in there was a ANIB Model 42 Nickel that I was just a little late getting there... Man I would have liked to have had that one. I will let you know what the letter says. I would love to here more comments, Thanks. I should post pics, but I have a slow-speed connection and it takes a long time uploading-forgive me for being lazy... Also something else to note is this gun is in an old style pre-bangor punta model 40 nickel box and the original worn label with the serial number has in the special features marked in blue ink "$200.00". All the rest of the info in the label is in black ink. Both inks are faded some and can tell have been on there for years, but I do not know if this came from the factory or not with the $200.00.

 

[wheelgun28]

Another thought, many dealers at that time would add to the guns they had in inventory. They might install target grips or triggers and hammers. They had all the parts on the shelf and many buyers wanted these things anyhow. A very common addition was target grips on a M28. Very few were factory, yet many new guns were sold with them on.

Sounds like you have a very nice gun and some very interesting grips!

 

[linde]

Yes, a very nice gun with what sounds to be a beautiful pair of grips . . . MOP with pre-1920 medallions on a circa 1971 Model 40 (JS frame w/grip safety) that fit perfectly. Would love to see pictures. The factory letter will tell us how it left the factory.

Jim (Hondo44) - if they were re-fitted (by the factory or not) from a pre-1920 32 or 38 Safety Hammerless (when we know MOP grips were available from the factory) wouldn't they be too short for a c. 1971 Model 40 JS-frame? . . . even though they both have the grip safety?

Russ

 

[rburg]

Guys, don't jump the gun on this one. They very well could be factory. Lets see what the guy's letter says.

I just missed a factory engraved M27 about 10 years ago. I knew the seller very well and got to look at it, even if marked "sold". What stunned me was the gun had pearls. They were kind of odd because it was a 1950s gun and had small brass medallions. The seller told me they were factory (sellers always embellish things), and of course I got the jaded look on my face. He smiled and said that's what he thought at first. Then he opened the carton and produced the factory letter showing it shipped with Mother of Pearl grips. I did give some thought to the idea a prior owner had scavenged the Smith grips and put on these. But they fit so perfectly and just looked right.

Times have been tough in the past. When a buyer, particularly one with some kind of influence, wanted something, they often could get it. Sure, it cost money. But it also built friends. There have been times when S&W was nearly without friends. They don't grow on trees, they're made. Service (just doing the job day in and day out) sometimes needs a helping hand now and again. I await the letter, and I'm hoping they're original!

 

[handejector]

I just have to doubt that pearl with gold medallions in the 70's is original.

High end gun shops often stocked grips for popular models in pearl, stag, and ivory. The clerk would show you guns till you picked one, then say:
"Would you like to see some pretty grips for that?
How about a holster?
Do you need a zipper case for that?
Do you have a cleaning kit?
Of course, you'll need some ammo."

Otherwise, he wasn't earning his pay.
Remember the old saying- The PROFIT is in the accessories!

Does anyone remember Dean's in Atlanta in the old location?

 

[big_gus]

I just have to doubt that pearl with gold medallions in the 70's is original.

High end gun shops often stocked grips for popular models in pearl, stag, and ivory. The clerk would show you guns till you picked one, then say:
"Would you like to see some pretty grips for that?
How about a holster?
Do you need a zipper case for that?
Do you have a cleaning kit?
Of course, you'll need some ammo."

Otherwise, he wasn't earning his pay.
Remember the old saying- The PROFIT is in the accessories!

Does anyone remember Dean's in Atlanta in the old location?

Are you thinking the grips had the medallions put in them by someone and arent factory original, or just not original to the gun? If factory original grips, wouldnt they have to be after 1952 as stated by Hondo44? I know its hard to answer this without pics, Thanks.

 

[big_gus]

Pictures Added!!!

Here are pis, I hope anway, lol.

 

[Hondo44]

big gus,

Great pics, those certainly are beautiful genuine MOP grips! And they look like they could have been factory made which gave me the thought of another possibility: they might be a Rd butt K frame pre 1920 factory set that were cut down and fitted to the J frame.

There's a way to determine this. I and J frame stocks measure 1 3/8" between the ctr of the medallion and the center of the stock screw, while RB K frame stocks measure 1 1/2". There is sufficient space in the J frame grip frame for a screw with the 1 1/2" spacing to work.

Yours look like 1 3/8" spacing but I can't tell for sure. What do they measure?

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

We simply won't know until the the letter comes, but my money is on factory-sold stocks NOT supplied with the gun by the factory. Aside from the fact that they are service rather than Magna, the box label gives no indication of MOP or anything unusual.

JMO.

 

[big_gus]

big gus,

Great pics, those certainly are beautiful genuine MOP grips! And they look like they could have been factory made which gave me the thought of another possibility: they might be a Rd butt K frame pre 1920 factory set that were cut down and fitted to the J frame.

There's a way to determine this. I and J frame stocks measure 1 3/8" between the ctr of the medallion and the center of the stock screw, while RB K frame stocks measure 1 1/2". There is sufficient space in the J frame grip frame for a screw with the 1 1/2" spacing to work.

Yours look like 1 3/8" spacing but I can't tell for sure. What do they measure?

Thanks Hondo44!!! You just made my day! They measure Exactly 1 3/8" from dead center of the medallion to dead center of the screw. What are your thoughts now? Thanks Alot Man! You certainly are an expert in my eyes.
When I first saw this gun for sell and saw the label, I thought I hate some Dumb... wrote 200 price on the label-I thought probably some trader wanting that for it at the time years ago. I have saw this many times before. It wasnt until I got home and looked where it was located that I thought there might have been a small possibility someone at Smith did it before it went out the door for a special order. I dont know and guess will have to see what the letter says. I would love to here more opinions whether good or bad, Thanks.

 

[Hondo44]

Thanks Hondo44!!! You just made my day! They measure Exactly 1 3/8" from dead center of the medallion to dead center of the screw. What are your thoughts now? Thanks Alot Man! You certainly are an expert in my eyes.
When I first saw this gun for sell and saw the label, I thought I hate some Dumb... wrote 200 price on the label-I thought probably some trader wanting that for it at the time years ago. I have saw this many times before. It wasnt until I got home and looked where it was located that I thought there might have been a small possibility someone at Smith did it before it went out the door for a special order. I dont know and guess will have to see what the letter says. I would love to here more opinions whether good or bad, Thanks.

I had another thought, but I don't want to get your hopes up about it being original with the MOP grips. Since it is a nickel gun, IMO it increases the prospect that it might have been ordered with fancy grips. In the '68 catalog your gun in nickel sold for $90.50. The $200 price could indicate the additional price of MOP grips. But I have to be honest, still more likely to be distributor or dealer installed grips.

Are there slight nicks in the pearl around the medallions? This might explain the antique medallions on grips made in the much later J frame size; installed after market in either factory MOPs or aftermarket MOPs.

I've never been more anxious to see what a factory letter says.

 

[chief38]

The workmanship of your grips appears to be top notch, but to the best of my knowledge I would say they are quality after market grips. I suppose anything is possible and who knows maybe S&W decided to take a walk on the wild side, but if I had to bet I would say NON Factory. I hope for your sake I am wrong. Let us know.

Chief38

 

[big_gus]

The workmanship of your grips appears to be top notch, but to the best of my knowledge I would say they are quality after market grips. I suppose anything is possible and who knows maybe S&W decided to take a walk on the wild side, but if I had to bet I would say NON Factory. I hope for your sake I am wrong. Let us know.

Chief38

This could be but I have no doubt that the medallions are at least 100% original as I have seen alot of them especially old I frames. I was told by a large dealer one time of high quality firearms that real mop is so delicate to work with that even alot of the top grip makers couldn't/wouldn't install medallions on them. This is why you never see aftermarket real mops with medallions. He also told me this is one reason why Smith quit doing the mop because it was so hard to install medallions and they had to do it under water and would have to scrap/trash so much mop because of it cracking and breaking. Of course if a person has enough money and time then I guess they could go until they get it right. Come to think of it I dont think I have ever saw a set of aftermarket smith real mop with medallions in it but there could be some out there. Thanks for your comments.

 

[big_gus]

I had another thought, but I don't want to get your hopes up about it being original with the MOP grips. Since it is a nickel gun, IMO it increases the prospect that it might have been ordered with fancy grips. In the '68 catalog your gun in nickel sold for $90.50. The $200 price could indicate the additional price of MOP grips. But I have to be honest, still more likely to be distributor or dealer installed grips.

Are there slight nicks in the pearl around the medallions? This might explain the antique medallions on grips made in the much later J frame size; installed after market in either factory MOPs or aftermarket MOPs.

I've never been more anxious to see what a factory letter says.

As seen in the pics, on the front side, there is a couple of small chips out on the top of the med. The back side is great and the rest of the grips are flawless. I figured this could have been from being handled, but it could have been installation. If Smith made grips like this and has a couple of tiny chips at the medallion on one side, would they have scraped it or not? Thanks.

 

[big_gus]

Well Guys the letter came today. Actually I had ordered 5 letters total, but only this 1 was a Smith Letter and they all came today. How crazy is that??? Anyway Ive got BAD News and Good News. Which you want first? OK Ill start with the bad and after seeing all the responses here, I was kinda expecting it in a way- I gave it maybe a 25% chance of lettering as factory shipped grips. They did not letter, however I was absolutely stunned when I saw where it was shipped. I will note that I did not send Roy a picture of the gun/grips, just noted about the grips with a brief description in the letter request. Instead of taking a pic and down loading, I will just write word for word what Roy wrote on Page 2 (Page 1 is just the history of the Centennial and the Model 40/42). Here it is:
"We have researched your Smith&Wesson Model 40 .38 Centennial, L Serial Number Variation caliber .38 S&W Special, revolver in company records which indicate that your handgun, with serial number L12** was shipped from our factory on July 26, 1972, and delivered to Shuhatana Std. Port, Thailand. The records indicate that this revolver was shipped with a 2 inch barrel, nickel finish and smooth high horn walnut grips. The pearl grips were probably added in Thailand. This shipment included 10 units of this model.
We trust that the information furnished will be helpful and of interest.
Sincerely,
Smith & Wesson
Roy Jinks
Historian" (End of Letter).

That was the last place I expected the gun to be shipped and how odd is it that it went to Thailand, hard to tell wherever else, then back to USA and lastly to me in Virginia and still be ANIB... That has to be very very rare in itself. Even though I was disappointed the grips did not letter, I still feel that my $50 was WELL SPENT!Crazy thing is I googled this place a couple of times and got nodda, think the name was changed after 1973? Would this have been a military base/port or miltary shipment? Would like to hear opinions and comments, Thanks for your help.

 

[JayCeeNC]

I still have about 8 sets of wood grips I bought in Bangkok, Thailand, in 1974. Nice target configurations, with proper-looking S&W medallions. I don't think they paid much attention to copyright laws there in those days...
Your Centennial could have been bought and brought back (smuggled) by a GI from Thailand. I was constantly offered guns "without papers" when I cruised the Chinatown gun shops in those days.

 

[big_gus]

I still have about 8 sets of wood grips I bought in Bangkok, Thailand, in 1974. Nice target configurations, with proper-looking S&W medallions. I don't think they paid much attention to copyright laws there in those days...
Your Centennial could have been bought and brought back (smuggled) by a GI from Thailand. I was constantly offered guns "without papers" when I cruised the Chinatown gun shops in those days.

Thanks for your comment. Do you know where this place was or anything about it since you were in Thailand? Thanks.

 

[JayCeeNC]

Gus, I don't recognize the name of that Port and when I Googled it I didn't find anything, either. It could be a place that's no longer in business. Sorry.