Chacam
Member
Is there a difference between for example 147gr LRN from one maker and the same from another maker. Many charts list loads and specify a certain Buller maker. Are all 147gr LRN (or other wts and shapes) pretty much the same? Thanks
Difference between Bullet Makers
- Thread starter Chacam
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Absolutely YES
Not only may the shape be different, they may be made from different lead alloys. Even changing the lube used makes a difference.
If you are loading a MAX load, these differences are very important and can cause significant pressure changes.
Not only may the shape be different, they may be made from different lead alloys. Even changing the lube used makes a difference.
If you are loading a MAX load, these differences are very important and can cause significant pressure changes.
Different brands can affect accuracy as well. I picked 6 Revolvers with Barrel lengths from 3” to 8 3/8” and tested 4 different 148gr wadcutters all loaded with 3gr Bullseye. The results were eye opening to say the least. Off a rest at 15 yds groups would range from 1.5” to 3” with same gun. Not as precise as using a Ransom Rest as my eyes and stability aren’t as good as they were 20 years ago but it’s been fun learning what load is best in each gun.
Switched to bigger 9mm bullets pursuant to subsonic/suppressed shooting.
Initially used Berry's 147 plated. Went to Bayou 145 coated.
Bayou has a "fatter" point (different ogive). Had to seat considerably deeper in the brass.
Will likely increase pressure and may change accuracy.
Initially used Berry's 147 plated. Went to Bayou 145 coated.
Bayou has a "fatter" point (different ogive). Had to seat considerably deeper in the brass.
Will likely increase pressure and may change accuracy.
fredj338
Member
No, bullets are not plug & play. Weight variation is not an issue it is the shape & bearing surface. This is what affects pressures. So always work up your loads when switching bullets that are not identical.
gwpercle
Member
Not all bullets of the same weight have the same profile and / or bearing surface , this affects pressure. If you stay away from maximum loads then a certain amount of data swapping can be done...but start low and work up unless you have data for that exact bullet and even then approach maximum loads carefully.
Too many have encountered trouble with a substitute bullet and a maximum charge...don't do it !
Gary
Too many have encountered trouble with a substitute bullet and a maximum charge...don't do it !
Gary
Last edited:
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Usually any bullet of the same weight, profile and composition can use the same load data. This is why we are supplied a charge range, to allow the data to be safely used with bullets from different manufacturers. This does not hold true for same weight bullets and of different materials like lead vs JHP bullets or solids.
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Quality, style and profile..
Quality, style and profile vary widely. Some have concave bases, some have longer noses, therefore less area to engage the rifling. Some have an actual hollow base or a bevel base I made the mistake of thinking that 'smallball' bullets were the same as RN bullets, but the profile of the smallball makes it horrible to try to work unless you have a very small overall length. Drove me crazy. When done right they appear to be sunk below the case mouth.
Does it have grooves? How many driving bands? Do they have a crimp ring or a lube groove? Exactly what diameter are they? What are they lubed or coated with? I could keep going but you get the point.
Quality, style and profile vary widely. Some have concave bases, some have longer noses, therefore less area to engage the rifling. Some have an actual hollow base or a bevel base I made the mistake of thinking that 'smallball' bullets were the same as RN bullets, but the profile of the smallball makes it horrible to try to work unless you have a very small overall length. Drove me crazy. When done right they appear to be sunk below the case mouth.
Does it have grooves? How many driving bands? Do they have a crimp ring or a lube groove? Exactly what diameter are they? What are they lubed or coated with? I could keep going but you get the point.
The most important thing to look for , once you are sure the bullet weight is the same, is the difference in the shape and "length" of the bullet. Longer and more streamlined, you will have to adjust your seating depth for a different OAL, or pressures may spike too high as internal case capacity has been decreased. Just the opposite with a shorter squatter bullet as you will need to adjust the seating depth as the bullet won't be seated near as deep and the velocity may decrease below the amount needed to properly function the weapon.
I had a case awhile back, a friend who was a commercial re-loader and I didn't want to bother with loading .380 for the few I shot. I gave him 150 rounds of brass and a batch of Bayou coated 95 gr. He looked up in the Lyman manual the OAL for a 95 gr. bullet (which had a entirely different ogive and length than the Bayou, and seated them so deep the ogive was below the case mouth, and they were seated nearly .065 too deep. I hate to think what would have happened if I had shot any of them. I pulled all the bullets and re-seated them, (and added .003" crimp). They then shot just fine.
I had a case awhile back, a friend who was a commercial re-loader and I didn't want to bother with loading .380 for the few I shot. I gave him 150 rounds of brass and a batch of Bayou coated 95 gr. He looked up in the Lyman manual the OAL for a 95 gr. bullet (which had a entirely different ogive and length than the Bayou, and seated them so deep the ogive was below the case mouth, and they were seated nearly .065 too deep. I hate to think what would have happened if I had shot any of them. I pulled all the bullets and re-seated them, (and added .003" crimp). They then shot just fine.
fredj338
Member
Seating a bullet deeper is not an automatic over pressure event. Deoends on the powder & charge wt of that powder.
+1 with post 3 & 7 and the others.......
lead to lead or JHP to JHP will work since it is apples to apples.....
Just that there might be a slight difference in the dies as well as the make-up of the bullet,
even if they are to be the "Same type", per 158gr LRN, .358 dia., for example.
One reason to follow the load data in the manuals or from the companies.
lead to lead or JHP to JHP will work since it is apples to apples.....
Just that there might be a slight difference in the dies as well as the make-up of the bullet,
even if they are to be the "Same type", per 158gr LRN, .358 dia., for example.
One reason to follow the load data in the manuals or from the companies.
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And the.....
And the cartridge. There's a lot of variance say, between the 9mm luger and the .38 and the .357 though they are close in weight and dimensions.
And the cartridge. There's a lot of variance say, between the 9mm luger and the .38 and the .357 though they are close in weight and dimensions.
Indeed, a bullet is not a bullet is not a bullet. Like women, even if they all weigh the same, they are uniquely different!
And, since, OP, you mentioned a lead bullet, I'll just offer that in addition to the things already mentioned, lead bullets also differ greatly both in hardness... from very soft swaged bullets to very hard "hard-cast" samples whose shooting characteristics are more akin to jacketed bullets; and in actual diameter... being very slightly overbore. Which is why you want to slug your cylinder/bore so you know what actual size bullet (or mould, if you're making them yourself) to use.
And, since, OP, you mentioned a lead bullet, I'll just offer that in addition to the things already mentioned, lead bullets also differ greatly both in hardness... from very soft swaged bullets to very hard "hard-cast" samples whose shooting characteristics are more akin to jacketed bullets; and in actual diameter... being very slightly overbore. Which is why you want to slug your cylinder/bore so you know what actual size bullet (or mould, if you're making them yourself) to use.
Depends what you are shooting. For the smaller low pressure stuff I don't worry about it too much. Likely does not matter much for 45 Colt or 38 Special. But I tend to get a lot more specific for 500 Magnum, 458 Lott, and stuff like that. Those large high pressure cartridges are nothing to mess around with.
fredj338
Member
Still, seating deeper does not automatically mean an over pressure event in a 9 or even 380. The powder burn rate & chare weight will have a huge affect on compression/seating deeper.
