Dillon 550B Primer Problems

[dwpmusic]

For all you 550B owners out there I have a question. Is there any way to completely avoid primer problems on the 550B besides just hand priming? Just got my 550 changed over from .45ACP to .38/.357 yesterday which, or course, necessitated changing from a large primer to a small primer. Everything went perfectly except the dreaded primer slide. It's either one thing or another. Either the primer slide doesn't go back far enough to let a primer fall into the cup or some way the darn things get disoriented in the magazine tube and won't drop at all. So, by the way, another question. With 100 primers loaded in the magazine is where any way to get them out without taking the magazine off which results in new primers all over your work bench, the floor and who know where else? Kind of a real p***er for someone that's comparatively new at handloading. Third question, how does 3.2gr Win231 behind a 158gr Berry's round nose sound? Am I starting too low? Thanks for letting me rant?

 

[TSQUARED]

When changing primer slides one has to be careful to insure that the primer slide is correctly positioned. I push the arm forward and insure proper alignment withinthe shell plate before tightening the screws.
I also place some powdered graphite on the steel plate upon which the slide moves. Knock wood, no problems since I have adopted this routine.
I had a similar experience sevarl years ago and the primers emptied on the bench - a pain in the neck to pick them all up.
In 38 Special I have used Trail Boss for all my loads since it is virtually impossible to double charge. In my limited experience the plated bullets provide ca 10+% lower velocity when compared to alead bullet of the same weight.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Have you called Dilon? They have always been very helpful with customer problems.

 

[OKFC05]

necessitated changing from a large primer to a small primer. Everything went perfectly except the dreaded primer slide

If you have one Dillon complete primer assembly all set up and adjusted to feed small primers, and another similarly set up for large primers, you never have to make the dreaded slide adjustments again..............just change the whole assembly and start loading.

how does 3.2gr Win231 behind a 158gr Berry's round nose sound?

Too light; suggest 4.0

 

[JDBoardman]

Boy, do I feel your pain. I just spent about two hours screwing around with my 550B primer feed because the tip lip cracked. Yes, I had a spare "dispenser orifice"; it just wouldn't go all the way onto the aluminum tube. Polished and sanded, finally got it to work and now everything is running again - but it is very frustrating. Just wait until you are halfway through a run, and the little plastic tip on the primer tube craps out just after you load a whole deck of primers, or one goes down the tube crossways and clogs the whole mechanism. Yes, the Dillon 'automatic' primer feed system is automatically a pain in the rear - as is just about every other primer feed system I have ever used. If you get a good, reliable solution to making the blasted thing work, please share.

I even have problems with my RCBS hand primer, so that's no perfect solution either. I guess you just have to hold your mouth right and murmur the proper incantations to the lesser gods to have it run without hiccups.

 

[dwpmusic]

Thanks for the replies guys. If I don't get it worked out I'll call Dillon. Looking at it, it looks OK. The primer cup is right under the magazine on the down stroke. Two 550s does indeed sound good however.

 

[dwpmusic]

Boy, do I feel your pain. I just spent about two hours screwing around with my 550B primer feed because the tip lip cracked. Yes, I had a spare "dispenser orifice"; it just wouldn't go all the way onto the aluminum tube. Polished and sanded, finally got it to work and now everything is running again - but it is very frustrating. Just wait until you are halfway through a run, and the little plastic tip on the primer tube craps out just after you load a whole deck of primers, or one goes down the tube crossways and clogs the whole mechanism. Yes, the Dillon 'automatic' primer feed system is automatically a pain in the rear - as is just about every other primer feed system I have ever used. If you get a good, reliable solution to making the blasted thing work, please share.




I even have problems with my RCBS hand primer, so that's no perfect solution either. I guess you just have to hold your mouth right and murmur the proper incantations to the lesser gods to have it run without hiccups.

Woah, I changed the tip on my magazine. I just wonder if I didn't get it on properly? Will know more soon. I just got the .38spl dies installed yesterday. Have not shot the first round that I've loaded. I didn't want to load a couple of hundred and not be satisfied with the way they shot. Wanted to check the ones I did load on the chrony before I went wild loading a bunch. Admittedly, I'm starting low (3.2gr Win231) but I like to start low and see what it does. So, until I get to the range and shoot the few rounds I've loaded (probably Tuesday) I'm at a standstill. I love the 550 but the primer problem is a real headache. Will report back to ya.

 

[growr]

Do you know anyone that is an experienced reloader using a Dillon in your area? Helps greatly to have a mentor....if not call Dillon and quit suffering in silence!

My 550 B has loaded many thousands of rounds with numerous changes from small primer to large and back with almost no troubles at all. If you have any broken parts, Dillon will send them to you No Charge.
Again, CALL DILLON!!

Randy

 

[Engineer1911]

Ok folks, I think on small point got missed in these posts. The primer arm (for seating primers) and the primer tube (for holding the primers) have to me the SAME size -- there is one each for small primers and one each for large primers. A small primer arm and a large primer tube is cause for hours of trouble. This is experience talking, not knowledge that comes from reading the instructions.

I strongly endorse the idea of two Dillon 550 presses. Buy one new to get all the manuals and then buy a second used one so you run one with large primers and one with small primers. Now if some one comes up with a way to get all the old primers to fall into the cup instead of sweeping the floor, I'll be a happy reloader.

 

[Beerjman]

Ok folks, I think on small point got missed in these posts. The primer arm (for seating primers) and the primer tube (for holding the primers) have to me the SAME size -- there is one each for small primers and one each for large primers. A small primer arm and a large primer tube is cause for hours of trouble. This is experience talking, not knowledge that comes from reading the instructions.

I strongly endorse the idea of two Dillon 550 presses. Buy one new to get all the manuals and then buy a second used one so you run one with large primers and one with small primers. Now if some one comes up with a way to get all the old primers to fall into the cup instead of sweeping the floor, I'll be a happy reloader.

I had my 550 for a few decades . Every time I changed from one size primer to the other I wished that I had two 550's .
Now I do ! ! ! ! ! ! ! It's THE way to go . Should have done it years ago .
Do not hesitate to call Dillon . You can not get better service .

 

[dwpmusic]

Two 550s if sounding better all the time. Going to put a call into Dillon if I can't get it worked out soon.

 

[dentkimterry]

New Dillon RL550b's come set up for large primers so if you're getting one don't switch your other one back!

 

[dwpmusic]

Hey guys, I think my primer problem solved itself. At least I think it has. I loaded a dozen primers in the magazine tube by hand just a little bit ago. Deprimed and primed a dozen pieces of brass without a hitch. Performed perfectly. I've yet to work up the nerve to load a 100 primers since I'm still finding some of the first 100 on the floor. Anyway, I think it had to be something I was doing. If it continues to function correctly I just might consider another 550 for large primer calibers. Thanks for everyone's concern. Now if I could just get some concrete advice on how many grains of Win231 to put behind my Berry's 158grRN. Some are saying that 3.2gr is too light.

 

[gwalchmai]

One of the best tips I was given is to wipe down the primer slide bearing surface with a damp alcohol cloth every 100 rounds. Makes a lot of difference for me.

 

[dwpmusic]

Might be my imagination but it seems as if the primer seating punch meets with a little resistance when you operate the handle without a primer in the cup. Don't seem to notice it when you're actually seating a primer. Probably just my imagination. Is this a spot that needs any kind of lube? I'm sure all this is covered somewhere in the manual.

 

[blujax01]

... Now if I could just get some concrete advice on how many grains of Win231 to put behind my Berry's 158grRN. Some are saying that 3.2gr is too light.

It's less than I would run. According to my manuals 4.1 is a safe and comfy starting point. You can run up to 4.9 velocity-wise but that's getting close to top end for that bullet.

 

[dwpmusic]

Hmmmm, makes me wonder if the rounds I've loaded with 3.2gr will even exit the barrel. That wouldn't be funny.

 

[blujax01]

Only one way to find out...

Seriously, they may be okay. Your load is low end for lead.

Just be aware of possible squibs.

Where did you get your numbers?

 

[dwpmusic]

Got the low end numbers from the Hornady manual, I think. Only thing I had to reference was a 158grLRN. Looking more like I shouldn't even try to shoot the 3.2gr. What do you think?

 

[dmar]

Can't help you with your primer feed issue, as I've got a Hornady LnL machine (4+years of trouble-free primer system for me).

However, your 3.2 gr. of W231 sounds real low to me. I load 4.2 gr. Of W231 with 158gr. lead, and that is on the low side. If memory serves me correctly, starting loads for jacketed 158s is around 4.0 gr., check to verify. I believe those plated bullets should have more powder than the 3.2 gr. you are using... Stuck, plated bullets can be a real PIA, ask me how I know...!

I'm curious, where did you get your data on the 3.2 gr. load? Check a couple of manuals, and go by those numbers. You probably know this, but its worth repeating, under-charged rounds can be dangerous, just like over-charged. I stay away from going too low, or too high.

Good luck with everything.

 

[max]

The "new" numbers put out by Winchester are really low compared to past data.

 

[dwpmusic]

I think that about settles it. I'm not even going to attempt to shoot the few 3.2gr rounds that I've loaded. I don't think it's worth taking the chance. I'm knew to the handloading hobby and I always call myself trying to be conservative and safe. But, it's looking like I'm being too safe on the low side here. I'll load some more tomorrow with, say, 4.0gr Win231 and go from there. Those numbers for the 3.2gr come from either my Hornady or Speer books, Hornady I think, looking at the data for a 158grLRN. Don't want to blow myself up but I don't want a squib as dmar is talking about either.

 

[blujax01]

I found your numbers in the Hornady manual for the 158 grain LRN starting load. And I understand why. "Internet Wisdom" dictates that plated bullets be loaded same as lead, which is wrong.

Berry's web site, in the FAQ section, states:
Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads.

The problem is that "low-to-midrange jacketed data" varies significantly from manual to manual. And "The same weight and profile" can be widely interpreted.

That being said, I think it is time for the plated bullet manufacturers to step up and publish some actual loads, as Speer, Hornady, Nosler and Sierra have done. Make them available on-line or sell a manual.

Alternately they could contract with the powder manufacturers and allow them to conduct the research.
In that scenario, the powder manufacturers could publish the data and the bullet manufacturers endorse the powders.

Yes, it would be an expensive undertaking.

Yes, it would add to the cost of the bullets.

But it would reduce the number of issues similar to the one the OP experienced.

And it would add to the pleasure (and confidence) of loading their product.

In my opinion.

 

[marmax]

I've had this problem in the past with my 550 and it is a fairly easy fix. I called Dillon many times and they are very helpful. In the end I figured it out myself. It is the two small screws on the bottom of the primer system. Don't over tighten them. Yes it has to be straight and square with the machine and yes it has to be kept clean but if it is too tight it will bind and cause the bar to stick just short of picking up a new primer. I keep the bar clean and put a little dab of dry lube (grafite) but more importantly do not over tighten the bar. It is a sweet spot, too loose and it moves, too tight and it binds. Good luck and call Dillon if your problem continues, they will make it right. They probably have the best guarentee in the business.

 

[dwpmusic]

Thanks again for all the responses. I'm with you blujax01. Berry's should publish some data about their product other than describing what it is and where it lies, etc. etc. It appears that they have been successful in marketing their product and a lot of people are using it, so step up to the plate and some data out there. It surely would help a newbie such as myself. BTW, my primer issue appears to be solved, hopefully.

 

[blujax01]

Not just Berry's. (And they are one of my favorite vendors too.) There are several major players in the plated bullet business.



Glad to hear you got your primers figured out!

 

[OKFC05]

Now if I could just get some concrete advice on how many grains of Win231 to put behind my Berry's 158grRN. Some are saying that 3.2gr is too light.

I load several thousand Berry 158gr in .38 Spl with WIN231/HP38 every year for IDPA/SSR, so here's my experience.
1. Berry bullets have higher friction than plain lead, so using minimum lead loads for Berrys is dangerous, risking a stuck bullet.
2. The safest minimum load is the starting load for JACKETED bullets. You can actually use a bit less for plated, but this starting point is always safe. I can't swear you'll stick a bullet at 3.2, but I wouldn't try it in my guns.
3. When IDPA required a power factor of 125 for SSR, I loaded 4.5gr HP38. Now that the IDPA power factor has been reduced, I load 4.3gr to meet the ICORE power factor of 120. I could drive them harder, but why?
4. If you use Ranier instead of Berry and are trying for a specific power factor, it is wise to check on the chrono for exact power factor, since Ranier seems slightly slower to me.

 

[dwpmusic]

I load several thousand Berry 158gr in .38 Spl with WIN231/HP38 every year for IDPA/SSR, so here's my experience.
1. Berry bullets have higher friction than plain lead, so using minimum lead loads for Berrys is dangerous, risking a stuck bullet.
2. The safest minimum load is the starting load for JACKETED bullets. You can actually use a bit less for plated, but this starting point is always safe. I can't swear you'll stick a bullet at 3.2, but I wouldn't try it in my guns.
3. When IDPA required a power factor of 125 for SSR, I loaded 4.5gr HP38. Now that the IDPA power factor has been reduced, I load 4.3gr to meet the ICORE power factor of 120. I could drive them harder, but why?
4. If you use Ranier instead of Berry and are trying for a specific power factor, it is wise to check on the chrono for exact power factor, since Ranier seems slightly slower to me.

Thanks for you reply. I wound up not shooting the rounds I loaded with 3.2gr. I talked with Jay at Berry's mfg. and although he said I "probably" would be OK shooting them, I decided it wasn't worth the risk. I wound up loading a few with 3.8gr 231 and they shot fine. Although I wound up averaging less than 700fps after shooting 6 strings. I've loaded 100rds using 4.0gr 231 and will see what they give me. Do the 4.3gr that you're loading give good accuracy? About what fps are you getting out of them?
Now I need some good advice on how to pull the bullets from the live rounds of 3.2 that I loaded. Seems to me a regular kinetic bullet puller would be somewhat dangerous.

 

[StatesRightist]

DWP--you did not say, new or used brass?

I'm recent to reloading, but only had problems with new brass. I bought 500 new Starline 10mm's and it was like chiseling the primers into place. The used brass, particularly the nickel coated pieces, are always smooth and flawless.....unless of course I somehow turned them upside down, I'm good for one a hundred on that one.

 

[dwpmusic]

The brass I've been using has been once fired Winchester. I had collected a bunch of .45ACP, 9mm and .38spl brass before I got started reloading. I shouldn't have to buy any brass for a very long time.