The "new" numbers put out by Winchester are really low compared to past data.
Dillon 550B Primer Problems
- Thread starter dwpmusic
- Start date
I think that about settles it. I'm not even going to attempt to shoot the few 3.2gr rounds that I've loaded. I don't think it's worth taking the chance. I'm knew to the handloading hobby and I always call myself trying to be conservative and safe. But, it's looking like I'm being too safe on the low side here. I'll load some more tomorrow with, say, 4.0gr Win231 and go from there. Those numbers for the 3.2gr come from either my Hornady or Speer books, Hornady I think, looking at the data for a 158grLRN. Don't want to blow myself up but I don't want a squib as dmar is talking about either.
I found your numbers in the Hornady manual for the 158 grain LRN starting load. And I understand why. "Internet Wisdom" dictates that plated bullets be loaded same as lead, which is wrong.
Berry's web site, in the FAQ section, states:
Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads.
The problem is that "low-to-midrange jacketed data" varies significantly from manual to manual. And "The same weight and profile" can be widely interpreted.
That being said, I think it is time for the plated bullet manufacturers to step up and publish some actual loads, as Speer, Hornady, Nosler and Sierra have done. Make them available on-line or sell a manual.
Alternately they could contract with the powder manufacturers and allow them to conduct the research.
In that scenario, the powder manufacturers could publish the data and the bullet manufacturers endorse the powders.
Yes, it would be an expensive undertaking.
Yes, it would add to the cost of the bullets.
But it would reduce the number of issues similar to the one the OP experienced.
And it would add to the pleasure (and confidence) of loading their product.
In my opinion.
Berry's web site, in the FAQ section, states:
Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads.
The problem is that "low-to-midrange jacketed data" varies significantly from manual to manual. And "The same weight and profile" can be widely interpreted.
That being said, I think it is time for the plated bullet manufacturers to step up and publish some actual loads, as Speer, Hornady, Nosler and Sierra have done. Make them available on-line or sell a manual.
Alternately they could contract with the powder manufacturers and allow them to conduct the research.
In that scenario, the powder manufacturers could publish the data and the bullet manufacturers endorse the powders.
Yes, it would be an expensive undertaking.
Yes, it would add to the cost of the bullets.
But it would reduce the number of issues similar to the one the OP experienced.
And it would add to the pleasure (and confidence) of loading their product.
In my opinion.
Last edited:
marmax
Member
I've had this problem in the past with my 550 and it is a fairly easy fix. I called Dillon many times and they are very helpful. In the end I figured it out myself. It is the two small screws on the bottom of the primer system. Don't over tighten them. Yes it has to be straight and square with the machine and yes it has to be kept clean but if it is too tight it will bind and cause the bar to stick just short of picking up a new primer. I keep the bar clean and put a little dab of dry lube (grafite) but more importantly do not over tighten the bar. It is a sweet spot, too loose and it moves, too tight and it binds. Good luck and call Dillon if your problem continues, they will make it right. They probably have the best guarentee in the business.
Thanks again for all the responses. I'm with you blujax01. Berry's should publish some data about their product other than describing what it is and where it lies, etc. etc. It appears that they have been successful in marketing their product and a lot of people are using it, so step up to the plate and some data out there. It surely would help a newbie such as myself. BTW, my primer issue appears to be solved, hopefully.
I load several thousand Berry 158gr in .38 Spl with WIN231/HP38 every year for IDPA/SSR, so here's my experience.
1. Berry bullets have higher friction than plain lead, so using minimum lead loads for Berrys is dangerous, risking a stuck bullet.
2. The safest minimum load is the starting load for JACKETED bullets. You can actually use a bit less for plated, but this starting point is always safe. I can't swear you'll stick a bullet at 3.2, but I wouldn't try it in my guns.
3. When IDPA required a power factor of 125 for SSR, I loaded 4.5gr HP38. Now that the IDPA power factor has been reduced, I load 4.3gr to meet the ICORE power factor of 120. I could drive them harder, but why?
4. If you use Ranier instead of Berry and are trying for a specific power factor, it is wise to check on the chrono for exact power factor, since Ranier seems slightly slower to me.
Thanks for you reply. I wound up not shooting the rounds I loaded with 3.2gr. I talked with Jay at Berry's mfg. and although he said I "probably" would be OK shooting them, I decided it wasn't worth the risk. I wound up loading a few with 3.8gr 231 and they shot fine. Although I wound up averaging less than 700fps after shooting 6 strings. I've loaded 100rds using 4.0gr 231 and will see what they give me. Do the 4.3gr that you're loading give good accuracy? About what fps are you getting out of them?
Now I need some good advice on how to pull the bullets from the live rounds of 3.2 that I loaded. Seems to me a regular kinetic bullet puller would be somewhat dangerous.
StatesRightist
Member
DWP--you did not say, new or used brass?
I'm recent to reloading, but only had problems with new brass. I bought 500 new Starline 10mm's and it was like chiseling the primers into place. The used brass, particularly the nickel coated pieces, are always smooth and flawless.....unless of course I somehow turned them upside down, I'm good for one a hundred on that one.
I'm recent to reloading, but only had problems with new brass. I bought 500 new Starline 10mm's and it was like chiseling the primers into place. The used brass, particularly the nickel coated pieces, are always smooth and flawless.....unless of course I somehow turned them upside down, I'm good for one a hundred on that one.
You'll get the hang of it.... Do not overthight the screws like marmax mentioned. When changing primer bars or when doing maintenance cleaning, use rubbing alcohol to clean all metal surfaces. Then I lube the bearing surfaces with Hornady One Shot spray. Works wonders.
Guy -
Guy -
i always keep my primer slides oiled on my Dillon 550s. also i changed out the primer tubes to the ones made for the Dillon 650 which have brass ends on them. i have never had an issue since doing this on either 550s that i have and they get used alot as i load at least 50k rounds a year.
SW CQB 45
Member
I have three 550s set up for .38, .45 and .Nina.
the primer system has to be clean and everything needs to line up for effort free priming.
Since I use fired brass, alot of tumbler media gets stuck in the flash hole and that media fouls my primer system if I dont clean it every now and then.
I polished my primer bar to improve movement as sometime it gets sticky when dirty. I usually load in increments of 50, as my matches are usually based off of the round count.
out of the three calibers I mainly load, .38 gives me the most headaches. it is also the oldest loader being purchased in the early 80s. the others I bought used within the past 10 years.
good luck
the primer system has to be clean and everything needs to line up for effort free priming.
Since I use fired brass, alot of tumbler media gets stuck in the flash hole and that media fouls my primer system if I dont clean it every now and then.
I polished my primer bar to improve movement as sometime it gets sticky when dirty. I usually load in increments of 50, as my matches are usually based off of the round count.
out of the three calibers I mainly load, .38 gives me the most headaches. it is also the oldest loader being purchased in the early 80s. the others I bought used within the past 10 years.
good luck
Bullseye Smith
Member
I use Hodgdon Power on-line and it says 3.1 to 3.7 of 231 is range to use. I don't know why?????????????? but the old books has a higher loads of power than the new ones. Is the power hotter or poor metal in the guns????
Harrison
US Veteran
The Dillion 550B primer mechanism is really very simple in the way it works. All you have to to is sit down and calmly analyze and/or study what it is or is not doing and, and then make the necessary adjustments. If you have primers spilling out of the bottom of the magazine tube, or not going into the cup on the primer bar, look and see if your magazine tube is really all the way down in it's slot, or if the plastic do-hicky on the end is messed up. Also sit down and read the manual that came with your press.
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+1 - This is the best solution
The next best is to make sure the slide is all the way forward when you remove the primer assembly. Dump the primers out the top of the tube into a bowl. Then remove the tube and slide. Alternately, you can remove the slide from the forward position (the primer stop is engaged). Hold the remaining assembly over a bowl, loosen and retract the inner tube slightly, dumping primers out the bottom once the tip is clear of the stop. Always check to make sure no primers are held up in the tube or assembly.
If you remove the inner tube loaded with primers with no way to catch them, you will dump primers all over creation.
GCF
Member
I've been loading various "large primer" calibers w/ my 550, for a number of years. Biggest problem, has been crushed walnut shell contamination.
Always avoided loading small primer calibers, as I didn't want to mess w/ changing out the priming system.
Recently purchased a 4" 686 no dash as a serious shooter. Still didn't want to deal w/ frequently swapping the priming system (I load small 50 - 100 round batches), so purchased an RCBS Univeral Hand Primer. Nice little unit, & so far - so good!
Always avoided loading small primer calibers, as I didn't want to mess w/ changing out the priming system.
Recently purchased a 4" 686 no dash as a serious shooter. Still didn't want to deal w/ frequently swapping the priming system (I load small 50 - 100 round batches), so purchased an RCBS Univeral Hand Primer. Nice little unit, & so far - so good!
Old Seabee
US Veteran
Dillon
I took a lansky diamond stone to slides , dont overtighten screws , light lube . Helped mine
I took a lansky diamond stone to slides , dont overtighten screws , light lube . Helped mine
smithwess999
Member
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My experience
I have a 550B for about a year. I found that when I first started I had a number of bad loads so I bought a RCBS collet bullet puller and a collet that works for 38 special. I then bought a spare toolhead and keep the RCBS puller in that toolhead. Midway has the puller for about $20 and each collet is about $10. Makes disassembly of many bullets easy.
When I started loading I was doing 9mm. Long story short, I did under-charge a load. The Glock appeared to fire fine but the slide failed to seat the last 1/4 inch. Not realizing I had a bullet stuck in the barrell, I took the gun apart at the range. I wish I had a picture of my face when I saw that bullet in the barrell and realized that I was 1/4 inches from a big problem.
When I start loading a new bullet, I pay real good attention to what is shot and count holes in the target. I also carry a piece of wooden dowel rod that fits the barrell, checking any time things don't seem right, a pencil also works.
Also, when you need to empty your primer magazine, be aware that primers bounce real well when they hit a hard surface, like a bowel. The first time I took the magazine off the 550B to empty the primers, I got to spend some time finding those jumping devils that hit the bottom of the bowel. Poor slow and cover the exiting area.
I do switch from large primers to small as I load mainly 9mm, 38 special and 45. It is a pain but I take this as an opportunity to use alcohol to clean the primer slide area. I always look at the primer cup for each stroke as I am tired of cleaning powder off of station two when a primer fails to fall. I have caught this often enough to realize that it is an intermittent problem, sometimes maybe even the primer.
If you ever do 9mm, I use W231 at 4.2 grains behind a 124 FMJ. I kept finding powder flakes at station 3. After much looking, I found that the problem was the indexing of the 550B. If I stop the sudden snap of the shellplate rotation when moving a casing from station 2 to 3, the spilled powder stopped. The 9mm casing is pretty full when you load, unlike a 45 or 38 special, so you need to stop this jerking motion.
Good discussion. If I ever figure out how to like something I will mark accordingly.
I have a 550B for about a year. I found that when I first started I had a number of bad loads so I bought a RCBS collet bullet puller and a collet that works for 38 special. I then bought a spare toolhead and keep the RCBS puller in that toolhead. Midway has the puller for about $20 and each collet is about $10. Makes disassembly of many bullets easy.
When I started loading I was doing 9mm. Long story short, I did under-charge a load. The Glock appeared to fire fine but the slide failed to seat the last 1/4 inch. Not realizing I had a bullet stuck in the barrell, I took the gun apart at the range. I wish I had a picture of my face when I saw that bullet in the barrell and realized that I was 1/4 inches from a big problem.
When I start loading a new bullet, I pay real good attention to what is shot and count holes in the target. I also carry a piece of wooden dowel rod that fits the barrell, checking any time things don't seem right, a pencil also works.
Also, when you need to empty your primer magazine, be aware that primers bounce real well when they hit a hard surface, like a bowel. The first time I took the magazine off the 550B to empty the primers, I got to spend some time finding those jumping devils that hit the bottom of the bowel. Poor slow and cover the exiting area.
I do switch from large primers to small as I load mainly 9mm, 38 special and 45. It is a pain but I take this as an opportunity to use alcohol to clean the primer slide area. I always look at the primer cup for each stroke as I am tired of cleaning powder off of station two when a primer fails to fall. I have caught this often enough to realize that it is an intermittent problem, sometimes maybe even the primer.
If you ever do 9mm, I use W231 at 4.2 grains behind a 124 FMJ. I kept finding powder flakes at station 3. After much looking, I found that the problem was the indexing of the 550B. If I stop the sudden snap of the shellplate rotation when moving a casing from station 2 to 3, the spilled powder stopped. The 9mm casing is pretty full when you load, unlike a 45 or 38 special, so you need to stop this jerking motion.
Good discussion. If I ever figure out how to like something I will mark accordingly.
This really has turned into an interesting thread. From all the replies it convinces me that primer issues are pretty rampant with 550B users. Also it seems that there are a number of different fixes used by people. Currently, I'm loading .38spl and the primer issue seems to have worked itself out. I don't, however, look forward to switching back to the larger primer bar when I go back to .45ACP. Maybe I won't have the problem again.
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