Disappointed with apex trigger

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cbr6864

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I have an M&P 40c which I love but I truly hate the trigger not so much the action as the hinge design itself. Long story short bought an apex poly trigger. Install was easy....was a little upset that you have to tweak the trigger bar. I'm guessing that the apex trigger allows a shorter trigger but at expense of tweaking the trigger bar at sear contact point.

The problem with tweaking the trigger bar where it contacts your sear is it messes with reset. The reset became even softer. I installed the included sear spring.....which did add a little weight. But at least for me the trigger felt horrible there was an insane amount of stacking during travel and as stated reset was very soft. I'm assuming this was due to altering angle on trigger bar where it contacts the sear. It did do away with most of the take up and I liked the actual fell of the trigger compared to factory but hated the action.

If apex could create a trigger that didn't require altering trigger bar I'd be thrilled even at the expense of take up. So back in went the factory trigger I was able to get trigger bar bent back to stock but ordered a new one just to be safe. I did keep the heavier sear spring in though as I prefer a heavier trigger for carry.
 
Hmmm, the trigger bar loop adjustment shouldn't affect reset at all. Take a look at this vid. The reset is when the trigger bar loop pops back under the sear.

 
I posted about this the other day. I was at the range shooting my AR and the guy next to me had a .40 full size with the APEX trigger and the RAM. He was bragging about the reset, and offered me to function and shoot his pistol. I have a .40c with the DECAK kit in it and was surprised to find that the reset on my pistol was more pronounced. His was a little, and I emphasize little bit shorter reset, but it seemed soft and mushy. Was not impressed with the APEX aluminum trigger at all.
 
I have the polymer triggers in 3 of the 4 M&P's we own and no issues. I love the triggers after adding Apex parts to the guns. We are expecting the FSS kit with the aluminum trigger any day now for the husband's Pro. My Pro has the FSS kit with the polymer trigger in it. According to Apex the polymer and aluminum triggers are exactly the same. I don't understand the OP saying he had to modify the trigger bar.. You do not bend the trigger bar at all. You DO open up the trigger bar loop. Very easy to do with a flat bladed screwdriver. If for some reason you open it too much, you just pinch it closed a little bit with needle nosed pliers.
 
I got the polymer trigger kit for my M&P 9 Pro Series 4.25 in but I never fitted it because honestly I didn't like the look of it. The plastic didn't seem the same quality as the original. Fitted everything else though including RAM and Ejector. Didn't have to alter anything. I used the green spring, don't know what the pull force is. It's pretty stiff on the first shot because the travel is zero. Only travel is straightening the M&P trigger! Reset distance is so short max 5/16 in. It's almost like a full auto. Love it.
 
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It is my understanding that both the aluminum and poly triggers from Apex are to be used with the FSS only due to the timing changes. Am I wrong in this?
 
sarge1967 said:
It is my understanding that both the aluminum and poly triggers from Apex are to be used with the FSS only due to the timing changes. Am I wrong in this?
Click to expand...

Yes, you are wrong. I have the polymer triggers in both of our 9c's and I have talked to Apex about them and they never said that they weren't for compact guns. As a matter of fact I called them when installing the first one because I couldn't get the sear to engage. They told me to just keep opening up the trigger bar loop a little bit at a time until it engages. Sometimes they have to really open up the trigger bar loop. Sure enough, after opening it a lot more than I thought was needed, the sear started to engage. No problems with the guns.

Also, I have the DCAEK kits in the guns, not the FSS kits.
 
AGoyette said:
Yes, you are wrong. I have the polymer triggers in both of our 9c's and I have talked to Apex about them and they never said that they weren't for compact guns. As a matter of fact I called them when installing the first one because I couldn't get the sear to engage. They told me to just keep opening up the trigger bar loop a little bit at a time until it engages. Sometimes they have to really open up the trigger bar loop. Sure enough, after opening it a lot more than I thought was needed, the sear started to engage. No problems with the guns.

Also, I have the DCAEK kits in the guns, not the FSS kits.
Click to expand...

Poster wasn't questioning full-size vs. compact frames - he was questioning whether the AEK triggers can be used without the Forward Set Sear (FSS).

APEX makes two different AEK triggers, one for use with the DCAEK or factory sear, and one for use with the Forward Set Sear. They are not interchangable and the FSS requires the use of the matching trigger.

Personally, I have DCAEK's with the polymer AEK triggers in both a 40FS and 40c - huge improvement over factory in feel, break, weight.

I suspect that the stacking issue the OP encountered would be cured with a bit of polishing of the striker block and other internal components, or through the installation of the Apex USB.
 
I put Poly Fss in my CORE 9 and then took the Pro sear from the CORE and an APEX poly trigger, put them into my 40c and love both. The triggers are like night and day from the originals.
 
OP stated that he put the Apex sear spring in. That spring has higher pressure than the stock sear spring. That may be the issue for feeling more "stacking pressure". He did mention the sear spring caused a little more weight, so maybe the stacking is another issue. If the trigger came with a new trigger spring, that spring may be the stacking issue. I am not aware of anything, that could cause stacking, other than the striker blocker contact with the trigger bar tab. See if you still have the "stacking" with the slide off. If not then the blocker contact is the likely suspect. The bending of the sear loop will cause a change to the break point. Bending it up causes an earlier break point, and bending it down causes a later break point, but bending the loop should not change the reset point. All the Apex springs are higher pressure, than the stock springs, except for the Comp. kit. The reset feel can be helped by bending the trigger bar slightly, to allow more inward pressure (towards the sear).

Bob
 
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I just saw on APEX website that the new FSS/Trigger kits come with a replacement RAM spring. They say change the RAM spring to the one which comes with the kit. What's the purpose of this? Is it stronger/weaker? I mistakenly ordered the non-mag release RAM for my M&P but installed it anyway and it works fine. Also new APEX trigger springs have "cotton wool" inside them like original M&P springs, old ones didn't, is this necessary? Comments appreciated.
 
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robkarrob said:
OP stated that he put the Apex sear spring in. That spring has higher pressure than the stock sear spring. That may be the issue for feeling more "stacking pressure". He did mention the sear spring caused a little more weight, so maybe the stacking is another issue. If the trigger came with a new trigger spring, that spring may be the stacking issue. I am not aware of anything, that could cause stacking, other than the striker blocker contact with the trigger bar tab. See if you still have the "stacking" with the slide off. If not then the blocker contact is the likely suspect. The bending of the sear loop will cause a change to the break point. Bending it up causes an earlier break point, and bending it down causes a later break point, but bending the loop should not change the reset point. All the Apex springs are higher pressure, than the stock springs, except for the Comp. kit. The reset feel can be helped by bending the trigger bar slightly, to allow more inward pressure (towards the sear).



Bob
Click to expand...


Good response, bending the loop does change trigger reset slightly as I see it. Because you must bend the loop up therefore decreasing the angle, the trigger bar must be allowed to move forward farther so that it can slide under the sear. With the factory loop/angle the trigger bar can slide under the sear sooner.

I agree that the heavier sear spring might have had something to do with the stacking. But I think it has more to do with having to bend the trigger bar loop. Doing so changes the contact angle between the sear and trigger bar.
 
mkbruce said:
Poster wasn't questioning full-size vs. compact frames - he was questioning whether the AEK triggers can be used without the Forward Set Sear (FSS).

APEX makes two different AEK triggers, one for use with the DCAEK or factory sear, and one for use with the Forward Set Sear. They are not interchangable and the FSS requires the use of the matching trigger.

Personally, I have DCAEK's with the polymer AEK triggers in both a 40FS and 40c - huge improvement over factory in feel, break, weight.

I suspect that the stacking issue the OP encountered would be cured with a bit of polishing of the striker block and other internal components, or through the installation of the Apex USB.
Click to expand...


Agree a little polishing wouldn't hurt, maybe a full DCAEK would help. I'm not looking for a lighter trigger really as I'd rather have a 5.5+lb on my carry gun. The take-up really doesn't bug me either as you only feel that with the first trigger pull.

My main thing is I was pretty disappointed in apex with the stand alone trigger because you must modify sear engagement point. I could have just as easily bent the loop up and used the factory trigger to get a faster break on the sear.

Really the only thing I wanted to do away with was that hinged trigger design. I might have received a bad trigger because on my poly trigger I wasn't able to get the trigger to deactivate the safety on several trigger pulls when drawing from a holster and performing live fire drills.
 
sarge1967 said:
It is my understanding that both the aluminum and poly triggers from Apex are to be used with the FSS only due to the timing changes. Am I wrong in this?
Click to expand...

You can use both poly and aluminum triggers as stand alone products but they seem to work better with the full kits.
 
cbr6864 said:
I have an M&P 40c which I love but I truly hate the trigger not so much the action as the hinge design itself. Long story short bought an apex poly trigger. Install was easy....was a little upset that you have to tweak the trigger bar. I'm guessing that the apex trigger allows a shorter trigger but at expense of tweaking the trigger bar at sear contact point.

The problem with tweaking the trigger bar where it contacts your sear is it messes with reset. The reset became even softer. I installed the included sear spring.....which did add a little weight. But at least for me the trigger felt horrible there was an insane amount of stacking during travel and as stated reset was very soft. I'm assuming this was due to altering angle on trigger bar where it contacts the sear. It did do away with most of the take up and I liked the actual fell of the trigger compared to factory but hated the action.

If apex could create a trigger that didn't require altering trigger bar I'd be thrilled even at the expense of take up. So back in went the factory trigger I was able to get trigger bar bent back to stock but ordered a new one just to be safe. I did keep the heavier sear spring in though as I prefer a heavier trigger for carry.
Click to expand...

The trigger bar isn't what affects reset. The only Apex part that ADDS a hard reset to the gun is the RAM.

S&W has now addressed the lack of reset in the trigger with their new slide catches.


C4


42427_REVA.jpg


M&P_H_Stamp_SlideCatch.jpg
 
The trigger bar foes effect reset, if you bend the hoop up decreasing the angle it will not be allowed to slide under sear quickly as it did before.
 
cbr6864 said:
The trigger bar foes effect reset, if you bend the hoop up decreasing the angle it will not be allowed to slide under sear quickly as it did before.
Click to expand...

We might be talking about different things. I am talking about the physical and audible "click" when the sear resets.

Are you talking about where the sear releases the striker?


C4
 
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The trigger bar isn't what affects reset. The only Apex part that ADDS a hard reset to the gun is the RAM.

S&W has now addressed the lack of reset in the trigger with their new slide catches.

I know the RAM can't be installed in a Shield but why didn't S&W just install a RAM in non-safety M&Ps because a RAM also gives you the ability to manipulate the trigger if the trigger spring fails. It also has to be superior to a small notch on the slide. I understand the Pro Series doesn't get the new slide catch.
 
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Ya, my 2013 Core still has the old slide catch, so I had to order a RAM to go with my FSS kit, because I can feel or hear no reset
 
I am running the alum in Pro 9 and Pro 40. My 9 install went well with minimal adjustment. The 40 took a lot of tweaking and some shaving of excess mold marks that affected the end of the trigger travel.

Took a bit but now they both work great. I call it the candycane....both of my guns needed a push there pull here of the candycane. Once it was set all was good and has remained good for over 1k in each of em.
 
ATF said:
The trigger bar isn't what affects reset. The only Apex part that ADDS a hard reset to the gun is the RAM.

S&W has now addressed the lack of reset in the trigger with their new slide catches.

I know the RAM can't be installed in a Shield but why didn't S&W just install a RAM in non-safety M&Ps because a RAM also gives you the ability to manipulate the trigger if the trigger spring fails. It also has to be superior to a small notch on the slide. I understand the Pro Series doesn't get the new slide catch.
Click to expand...

S&W would have to buy the RAM from Apex. This adds cost. On top of this, S&W went to one standardized SHB (the one that will accept a Thumb Safety). So the hole in the center is gone.

LE M&P come with the new slide catch and they should start to trickle down into the commercial market soon. We also sell them so you can add them to your old gun if you like.


C4
 
C4IGrant said:
S&W would have to buy the RAM from Apex. This adds cost. On top of this, S&W went to one standardized SHB (the one that will accept a Thumb Safety). So the hole in the center is gone.

LE M&P come with the new slide catch and they should start to trickle down into the commercial market soon. We also sell them so you can add them to your old gun if you like.


C4
Click to expand...

I'll be buying a 5in C.O.R.E. this year I hope it has the old block so I can use a RAM. If it doesn't I'll buy an old block from you. Hell I'll probably buy a few now before they are gone. PM me and I'll send you my email.
 
steve462x0 said:
Ya, my 2013 Core still has the old slide catch, so I had to order a RAM to go with my FSS kit, because I can feel or hear no reset
Click to expand...

You are better off with a RAM, did you install the USB? I highly recommend the APEX extractor also.
 
ATF said:
I'll be buying a 5in C.O.R.E. this year I hope it has the old block so I can use a RAM. If it doesn't I'll buy an old block from you. Hell I'll probably buy a few now before they are gone. PM me and I'll send you my email.
Click to expand...

The CORE's we have in have the older SHB's (not sure why).

We have the old SHB's in stock, but are down to about 5 of them.


C4
 
C4IGrant said:
LE M&P come with the new slide catch and they should start to trickle down into the commercial market soon. We also sell them so you can add them to your old gun if you like.


C4
Click to expand...
Yes, I would like to buy the new slide stop. Where can I get one (or 3)?
 
bad2006z71 said:
Does this need to be used with the new "H" trigger bar to get the "affect"?

I have a new M&P pro in both 4.25 and 5" (not sure on the manufacture date, but bought this year) and not sure they have either. The reset is barely noticeable even with an APEX ram installed.

Thanks
Click to expand...

No, but it does help. We do have the new H trigger bars in stock as well.


C4
 
Thanks. I will have to take them apart this weekend and check them. If they aren't the new ones, I'll be ordering 2 from you.
 
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