Disappointed with Smith and Wesson customer service

[jameswilson29]

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[Snowbandit]

I'm confused........... what is causing the barrel to be locked back? Is the barrel bulged like from firing a squib load leaving a bullet stuck in the barrel and a regular bullet fired on top of it? That would be an ammo/shooter error and not covered by the warranty. S&W's customer service is usually very good even when it takes them a time or two to get things right. We wouldn't expect them to free fix something that clearly wasn't their fault though.

 

[HspncElvis]

Hi James,

Sorry to hear about your malfunction, and Smith and Wesson customer service. They told you it was the ammo? If thats the case, ask S&W if you should contact the ammo company. I think S&W should fix it free of charge. Call them back and let them know how you feel. Also, let them know you have MANY Smith and Wesson friends. (US) Sounds like the rep you talked to is taking the easy way out.

Person I've dealt with is Joe Marcoux at 1-800-331-0852 Ask him about the ammo and if you should contact the ammo company, AND you feel strongly S&W should fix the problem. Joe seem to be a nice guy. Worth a try.

 

[7cstevan]

I'm confused........... what is causing the barrel to be locked back? Is the barrel bulged like from firing a squib load leaving a bullet stuck in the barrel and a regular bullet fired on top of it? That would be an ammo/shooter error and not covered by the warranty. S&W's customer service is usually very good even when it takes them a time or two to get things right. We wouldn't expect them to free fix something that clearly wasn't their fault though.

Do you have either of the bullets that might have been stuck in the barrel, and / or the cases as well? I agree Smith should consider helping you, but more likely it should be the ammo company to pay for your repairs--although it could have been due to a light strike for that matter that Smith should at least look in to for you.
Think of your car warranty and tires--if you read your manual, for tire problems you go direct to the tire manufacturer, not the car maker.
Get hold of Winchester and see what they say, especially if you have saved any part of those 2 rounds

 

[jameswilson29]

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[7cstevan]

My 2 cents--and not having been in on the first call you made to them, but I think you're being a little harsh after only one call.
Certainly you need to make another call to them--and either speak to another rep, or the same one, tell them you're not happy with the first decision and give them a chance to make it right.
I run a few company operations with multiple customer service people and anything can happen--from a new person on the phone, to a simple misunderstanding or a few words heard incorrectly. As a boss, I actually appreciate it if someone gives us a second chance if they feel they have a complaint.

 

[jameswilson29]

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[lil'Bill]

I agree with 7cstevan here...
It certainly sounds like you got off on the wrong foot with the first contact @ S&W... And it also sounds like the CS Rep didn't get much of a chance to have a completely rational conversation to try to discuss options for resolution, as well...

As a Customer Service Manager, myself, I would chalk this one up to an unfortunate experience, and go about it again with an open mind and calm attitude. "Any given day" certainly applies to the customer service world as much as (if not more than) any profession dealing with the public on matters that tend to be unpleasant for the initiator of the conversation.

I'd call'em back, explain that you feel there's a better resolution than what was first offered, and keep the implication of litigation out of the conversation.
Something my father once told me about "honey vs vinegar" applies here...

Good luck with the repair... I haven't had any first-hand experience with the Sigma, but certainly wouldn't base the entire company's product line reputation on an individual incident. These, after all, are machines with moving parts.

Nothing against Winchester, either... But I've heard both good and bad about their product, as well... Some have had horrible experience with it... others say no issues at all with hundreds of rounds down range.

 

[guy sajer]

Nothing against Winchester, either... But I've heard both good and bad about their product, as well... Some have had horrible experience with it... others say no issues at all with hundreds of rounds down range.

Yes .

Before condemning the pistol , I'd try another brand of ammo maybe CCI or Federal . The Win might be out of spec . As a firearms retailer for 25 yrs , I've seen it . If it still has issues then try warranty . Good luck sir .

 

[Will Carry]

Is the pistol inoperable now? What I am hearing is that the pistol is jammed, with the slide back, and cannot be freed up. If that is the case, it seems like Smith and Wesson would accept it and repair it. Maybe the customer service rep did not understand. Did he speak with a Russian accent and call himself Betty?

 

[RedBerens]

I'm confused about the malfunction too. If the slide simply locked back, and can be lowered, it could be simple operator error, and that you accidentally bumped the slide stop while firing. If the slide is locked back and cannot be lowered, my guess would be an issue with the recoil spring assembly, or a damaged slide stop. If you could clarify the exact problem, we might be able to help you better.

 

[jameswilson29]

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[guy sajer]

Not defending anyone or blaming anyone .

Just trying to help out . This is what I do for a living . I can't speak for the others but until we know what's "broke" it's tough to condemn S&W or Winchester .

Those of you who are defending S&W customer service (exactly who do you work for and what is your role on this forum?) are ignoring a relevant fact - the gun was examined by a gunsmith (expert witness, anyone?) immediately after the incident and the gunsmith could not determine what was wrong with the gun. I assume the gunsmith with 40 years experience who actually examined the gun knows more than the $10 an hour customer service rep at some phone bank. The expert opinion of the gunsmith indicates that the malfunction was not due to a squibbed barrel, the conclusion erroneously reached by the S&W customer service rep despite my negative response to his question about the donut shape in barrel.

40 yrs of experience should equate to some sort of diagnosis I would think . He has no idea ?

After the malfunction, I showed the gun to a gunsmith who owns the outdoor shooting range where I was shooting. He could not fix it on the spot and could not determine what was wrong with it.

I would take it to either the store you bought it from and get their view or find someone else local to get an exact diagnosis .

The S&W rep $120 estimate was probably for a new barrel and if he assumed it was bulged (which was a fair diagnosis) then that would be the fault of the ammo and not S&W's responsibility . But since you've observed that it's not bulged then the $120 is in error .

At this point another opinion or sending it to Smith are the 2 options I see .

 

[Markcuda]

James, the longer this thread goes on, the more you are going to be blamed for the gun malfunctioning, just saying

 

[novalty]

In regards to the Winchester ammo, I have had good and bad experience with their ammo. So just because it says Winchester doesn't make it quality. Sorry to hear about the troubles with your Sigma. It sucks to get a lemon, but only alternatives I see is to call them back and give them another chance to make it right, or have it as a very expensive paper-weight. If you don't see anything stuck in the barrel, I wouldn't mention anything about ammo. I would just say that you bought it new back in July and the slide is frozen back on the firearm.

 

[stevieboy]

I'm a bit confused by this thread (as opposed to my normal state of confusion). You have a gun that is covered by a product warranty and it is evidently broken. Normally, the approach would be to call Smith, tell them about the problem, and then, ship the gun back to them for evaluation and, possibly, warranty repairs. Now, it's possible that Smith might tell you, after looking at the gun that the problem is not of their making and that, under that circumstance, they won't repair the gun for free. However, I've never heard of a situation where Smith would make that determination over the phone without at least looking at the gun.

So, my question is: did you ask Smith to evaluate the problem? Have you discussed with their service rep. shipping the gun back to them for an examination and possible warranty service?

It may be that you had a communication mixup with whomever you spoke to. My advice is to call them back, describe the problem without attributing a cause to it, and asking them to examine the gun for a possible warranty issue. My guess is that Smith will send you a prepaid shipping label and that you'll be able to ship the gun back to them for free for warranty evaluation and, possibly or likely, repairs at their expense.

 

[buckyjames1]

Always interesting how some folks are so quick to defend a gun manufacturer without giving good input or a few courses of action besides:

"Look I know you paid for a new gun and its broken and malfunctioned and you spoke with S/W and they said pack sand, but...Dont judge a company based on your limited experience with their product and a customer service rep that might not have known what he was talking about...Call them back and be kind...be gentle..."

We are the end user.

agree with response:
1. call back telling them only that the slide is locked to rear and you dont know whats wrong.
2. Have a shipping label sent and send out gun
3. allow their smith to fix.
4. If you lack faith in the Sigma talk to a rep about a refund or replacement plan.

If I pay good money for something that should defend my life, it should. There are lotsa posts of people having issues these days with brand new pistols. My self included. If I wanted crap I'd buy a Lorcin or a Grendel

Just my 2copper pieces.

 

[bitstream]

1) Plenty of people have put lots of rounds down their Sigma without problems. Your weapon is not the standard, it is an exception.

2) They should fix it and shouldn't have given you the brush off. I'd either guess the service rep wasn't right or perhaps the communication wasn't good between the two of you (not blaming either party, but sometimes two people have a talk and neither hears it right).

I would agree to call back. Just tell them succinctly that you have a recently purchased Sigma with a problem. Tell them exactly what the issue is and then tell them you showed it to a gunsmith who cannot determine the problem and told you to call S&W. Don't say much more, it just confuses the subject.

As far as Winchester ammo goes; it's not bad, but it's not the best. I've found hollow points in a box of FMJ before. If their quality control doesn't notice something that visually obvious, then it's certainly plausible they didn't load a round correctly and overpressured your gun. Which would be on them to pay for.

 

[n4zov]

The slide is locked back in a partially open position, as shown in the photos attached.

Those of you who are defending S&W customer service (exactly who do you work for and what is your role on this forum?) are ignoring a relevant fact - the gun was examined by a gunsmith (expert witness, anyone?) immediately after the incident and the gunsmith could not determine what was wrong with the gun. I assume the gunsmith with 40 years experience who actually examined the gun knows more than the $10 an hour customer service rep at some phone bank. The expert opinion of the gunsmith indicates that the malfunction was not due to a squibbed barrel, the conclusion erroneously reached by the S&W customer service rep despite my negative response to his question about the donut shape in barrel.

I believe you now understand the nature of my complaint: the S&W immediately blamed someone else for the problem (the ammo manufacturer), refused to take responsibility for its defective product, and tried to make a buck off me to increase S&W's bottom line.

Since your posted on a public forum I assume you expected to get some kind of response. Those who responded have gone out of their way to try and help you with your problem and just because they don't completely agree with or understand your assessment doesn't mean they are defending customer service. The truth is that you experience with S&W customer service is NOT typical of most other people's experiences and therefore you are getting a lot of questions. It doesn't mean you are wrong, but it also doesn't mean those trying to help you have some ulterior motive. If you want to trash the gun and S&W, by all means go ahead. Just don't expect everybody on the forum to agree with you.

 

["JJ"]

I assume the gunsmith with 40 years experience who actually examined the gun knows more than the $10 an hour customer service rep at some phone bank

BUT.....

and the gunsmith could not determine what was wrong with the gun

Someone else also said this sort of contradicts its self.
I can only imagine how many times S&W was told this guy is a "qualified smith"!

So now with emotions high, you run call S&W & tell them the same thing.
Like another guy said;

not having been in on the first call you made to them

....it is hard to guess what the conversation was like!
If you called up(not saying you did, just an example) yelling about after the third round the slide locked back & can't be released. And how an extreamly qualified guy/gunsmith, who works at the range that could have sold you the ammo, says it definately is not the ammo & it is without a doubt a gun malfuction!!
I can see how things could take a turn down a side street!
Again, not being there for the call we can only turn to what we know about the parties involved! That is simply the companies reputation!
Thousands of post stating how great the company is! This builds the reputation!
If it were like other companies with every other post complaining about thier lack of service, I'm sure everyone would jump in line!

NOW, with that being said I agree that the result, how ever it was arrived at, was not the result that you or the an upstanding company would want!
I think the CS rep was on the defensive. The only thing that they could do is a quick diagnosis which is the same thing that most of the members did here. They assumed that the barrel was buldged & that is was an ammo/operator problem.

I am not a customer service boss & I don't play one on TV!
But here is what I would do:

1) Focus on your goal!
Does it really matter who's fault it is if you get your gun fixed?

2) Call S&W CS back!
I will again quote other post:

keep the implication of litigation out of the conversation

Something my father once told me about "honey vs vinegar" applies here

describe the problem without attributing a cause to it

Ask them what would be the best course of action to reach you goal! Ask if they can take a look at it a to see if they can make it work again.

The main thing is to get your gun back to a working condition so you are either comfortable with it as a SD gun or so you can sell/trade it off.

I feel bad that you are having trouble with you gun.
I really do hope it all gets worked out to your satisfaction!
Try to keep your wits about you & a cool head!
I promise loosing you cool will not help. Believe me, I tried that path for years!!

Best of luck with the rest of this journey!
Keep us updated!!