Do Police Ride with Full Auto EBR's?

[markush]

in afghanistan, EBR stands for Enhanced Battle Rifle- an up-dated M14 with folding stock and m1913 picatinny rail system. enemy combatants there have used the limitations of 5.56 in a m4 to their tactical advantage.

when i saw the title of this thread, i thought 'good grief, where in America do the cops need an EBR?' i was tricked by usage.

'

I thought the exact same thing!
Mk 14 Enhanced Battle Rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[safearm]

We were issued (if we qualified) a semi-auto M4 in addition to the 11-87 everyone carried.

 

[ol' geeser]

Full rock and roll bushmaster up front...M14 and an 870-8 shooter in the trunk...lots of ammo....here in rural Texas you never know what you're gonna roll up on and Mr. Murphy has taught me that backup is almost always at least 20 miles away
On a slightly different note, when I was K-9 I added an Igloo electric cooler to the trunk. Kept cool water for the dog and handler, as well as nibbles for both of us. Currently makes thirty hour plus stints on manhunts, train derailments, and such much more tolerable. Learned the hard way to wire it in so that it only runs when the engine is running....it'll drain the best battery in short order. I understand somebody makes a shutoff device now but I haven't tried to chase one down.

 

[keith44spl]

I am very happy for police officers to be armed in any way they think necessary for the beat they are on.

Are the EBR's in most patrol cars Full Auto/burst or just AR-15 type semi-auto's?

Some do, some don't....

I've carried and quaified with both semi and select fire weapons while working on warrant/entry teams.

For the rural route, I much prefer the 16" AR-10 semi-auto with a good reflex sight system.

But, that's just me.

Su Amigo,
Dave

 

[ljspoon]

All of our Deputies carry select fire M-4 with EO techs

 

[cowart]

Are the EBR's in most patrol cars Full Auto/burst or just AR-15 type semi-auto's?

You can tell by looking at them - AR-15 rifles don't have the "auto" safety position.

 

[The Big D]

Thanks for the "EBR" explanation, fellas.

SWAT personnel in my former agency did carry full-auto capable weapons. AR-15 "patrol rifles" were single shot only.

Like many, I see very limited need for full-auto in patrol vehicles...except, perhaps, in circumstances as our Texas poster ol' geeser noted.

Be safe.

 

[WR Moore]

There are two uses for full auto fire: repelling a human wave assault and saturating an area with suppressive fire. Neither is a likely police scenario and the latter has massive legal issues attached.

 

[dmar]

There are two uses for full auto fire: repelling a human wave assault and saturating an area with suppressive fire. Neither is a likely police scenario and the latter has massive legal issues attached.

Interesting thoughts on the potential uses for full auto, in police applications. I would agree, based on what we have traditionally seen in this country, not very necessary. But, I'm sure that was the case prior to the Norcal, and LA bank robberies, and FL FBI shooting. After those events, ARs/patrol rifles were suddenly acknowledged as necessary...

Have you guys seen the news reports on the London riots? Seen the trajectory of the Dow lately? How about all those jobs that have been created? Sad to say, but we may be seeing some things happening in our society that we have not seen before. Might even have some new needs for police firepower... I hope I'm wrong!

 

[sheriffoconee]

With all due respect, 30/30 leverguns could have stopped the North Hollywood bank robbery as well as any self loading AR/M16 rifle on the planet....
I am all about patrol rifles, but I am not convinced that the ONLY acceptable platform is the AR/M14/M16/M4 platform....
Back in the day I carried my 30-30....and feel perfectly protected with it even now...

 

[akviper]

I would not feel comfortable at all launching a 30-30 round in a school or mall active shooter scenario. The 5.56 mm is much cheaper to train with and does not have the penetration excesses of the 30 caliber rounds. In our enlightened hire them even if they are borderline qualified time, the 5.56 mm recoil is better tolerated than shotgun or larger 30 caliber guns.

We run our folks through a 800 round yearly refresher and quarterly training and quals. That would cost a lot more if we ran 30-30 or 7.62s. I doubt even the big boys would make it through 800 rounds of 30-30 in four days.

In all the law enforcement oriented training with the exception of firing from a helicopter, full auto is usually confined to CQB scenarios where two, two or three shot bursts are fired at across the room distance. Anything farther out is engaged with semi.

You have been watching too many hollywood movies if you think a trained officer will dump multiple magazines willy nilly across the neighborhood. Admittedly there have been incidents with multiple officers firing too many rounds with high capacity handguns but that is an issue of poor training and the exception rather than the norm. Even basic academy firearms training stresses accountability for each round fired.

 

[sheriffoconee]

I would not feel comfortable at all launching a 30-30 round in a school or mall active shooter scenario. The 5.56 mm is much cheaper to train with and does not have the penetration excesses of the 30 caliber rounds. In our enlightened hire them even if they are borderline qualified time, the 5.56 mm recoil is better tolerated than shotgun or larger 30 caliber guns.

We run our folks through a 800 round yearly refresher and quarterly training and quals. That would cost a lot more if we ran 30-30 or 7.62s. I doubt even the big boys would make it through 800 rounds of 30-30 in four days.

In all the law enforcement oriented training with the exception of firing from a helicopter, full auto is usually confined to CQB scenarios where two, two or three shot bursts are fired at across the room distance. Anything farther out is engaged with semi.

You have been watching too many hollywood movies if you think a trained officer will dump multiple magazines willy nilly across the neighborhood. Admittedly there have been incidents with multiple officers firing too many rounds with high capacity handguns but that is an issue of poor training and the exception rather than the norm. Even basic academy firearms training stresses accountability for each round fired.

I believe you read things into my post I didn't say....
I didn't suggest that the 30-30 was better, or more cost effective than a 5.56 platform...nor did I suggest it was cheaper to train with......
I suggested, no, outright said, that a 30-30 lever rifle would have ended the North Hollywood shootout.....and I maintain that it would have....
While your agency may have enough money to run patrol officers or deputies through 800 rifle rounds, I suggest to you that is an exception, not the rule....
I also suggest, from a great deal (certainly not all of course) of the in car gun fight footage that we see on a regular basis that many peace officers are shooting to slide lock, with no increase in the number of hits scored....but maybe I am wrong....

 

[The Big D]

I would, and did, choose a Remington 870 as my ride-along. Altogether practical in an urban environment and useful in any environment.

Be safe.

 

[Rule 303]

My last EBR that I was issued by my Agency was a M16A2 manufactored by FN. Excellent rifle, reliable and extremely accurate.

Rule 303

 

[Fishslayer]

I just hope the full auto guns don't have flash supressors.

That much fire power, in addition to the bayonet lugs and folding stocks, might be too much even for a well trained officer to handle.

From some reports we've seen a .40 S&W G**** is too much...

 

[akviper]

My apologies if you took offense at my post. I've seen other posts where the lever gun was proposed as the ideal patrol long gun. That was not your point and I agree that the North Hollywood officers would have given their eye teeth for any center fire rifle that hit where it was aimed.

We opted to train our officers thoroughly with all weapons issued. Spending a few hundred hundred dollars on ammunition per officer per year is cheap insurance to minimize costly and tragic events that result from lack of, or improper training. Loss of an officer's or innocent citizen's life is hard to explain if caused by budget cuts.. Yes the municipality or county saved a few thousand dollars but was it worth it?

My personal feeling is that full auto is unnecessary for general patrol use. I served on and led swat teams for seventeen years and was armed with a variety of firearms over the years. I never felt under gunned with a semi and rarely used the auto position even when I had one on the gun. We took our training seriously and I was lucky enough to have an administration and governing body that understood the importance of training.

I also agree that many agencies feel that training to the minimum standard is all they need. If those agencies are handing out M16s without adequate training they are doing their officers and communities a disservice.