Do you think this Pic is real?

[GF]

I got this pic sent to me yesterday on my cellphone...

... no back story from the sender, just supposed to be a Whitetail deer skull.

Do you think it's real or even a deer?

GF

 

[sipowicz]

Hard to tell with his hat on.

 

[feralmerril]

Yeah, I have seen a few freaks like that.

 

[DCWilson]

Isn't that what they were discussing over in the chupacabra thread?

 

[imashooter2]

There's a "non standard" whitetail mount pretty similar to that at the Hamburg PA Cabela's.

 

[9c1 lover]

i heard ont he radio the other day some guy called in saying he had a 36 point buck, and they were all trying to have hunters call in and verify if that is real or not.

what say you guys? a 36 point buck? i cant believe that, sorry if that is a stupid question, but i am in no way a hunter, i just cant fathom that though.

they were saying there is different ways of "scoring" the points or something, i didn't catch the whole show and no hunters had called in by the time i was done listening.

that is what this thread is about right? having too many points?

 

[Bicky Robby]

Its on the internet, it must be real.

 

[feralmerril]

Yes, I remember one buck that had points all over its main beams. I was working and liveing near that golf course at wawona in yosemite in 1960. Many deer like hundreds would come down towards night. This one looked like he was growing cactus trees on his head!

 

[Faulkner]

That's what happens when the bucks feed primarily on the genetically altered corn they grow specifically to make ethanol fuel. Makes me wonder what it's doing to our kids (like causing them to wear sagging britches and listen to crazy music).

 

[jkc]

i heard ont he radio the other day some guy called in saying he had a 36 point buck, and they were all trying to have hunters call in and verify if that is real or not.

what say you guys? a 36 point buck? i cant believe that, sorry if that is a stupid question, but i am in no way a hunter, i just cant fathom that though.

they were saying there is different ways of "scoring" the points or something, i didn't catch the whole show and no hunters had called in by the time i was done listening.

that is what this thread is about right? having too many points?

Let's see if I can clarify this --- in common vernacular, the ends of the main beams and the tines are colloquially called points. In the midwestern and eastern states, a typical mature whitetail would have three tines extending from the main beam on each side, and be called an "eight-point" buck. In the west, the same antlers would be called a 4x4 (same parlance is used for all species and subspecies of deer, as well as elk, which are just bigger deer...) There are various trophy "scoring" or measuring systems in use around the world, but the common measuring/scoring system in North America is that promulgated by the Boone & Crockett Club, and also used by the Pope and Young club for measuring archery trophies. In this system, any protuberance of 1" or greater from the main beam is classified as and measured as a "point", which is not to be confused with the overall score of the specimen, also described as a "point value" based on an elaborate protocol for measuring a set of antlers. Last I looked the minimum numerical point value for record book entry was 195 points for eastern whitetails, 120 for Coues whitetails, 195 for mule deer, and 130 for blacktail deer. These numbers, again, do not mean that the set of antlers had that many individual tines (points), but rather had a net numerical score of x many points.

There are occasional aberrant specimens of deer and elk that sprout bizarre baskets of multiple, irregular tines (or "points") sometimes palmated or otherwise misshapen --- these are categorized as non-typical, and measured by a somewhat different protocol. It's entirely possible that a non-typical eastern whitetail could have 36 tines.

The head in the photo appears to be a classically non-typical mule deer (note the bifurcated G4 tine on the left antler...) rather than a whitetail.

And yes, I know that there are other systems in use, notably that used by Safari Club International, and the quirky Burkett system used by deranged Texans, but the above example illustrates the confusion about "points", I hope.

 

[feralmerril]

Heck, even some humans grow horns!

Human Horns: A Dilemma For Some, A Delight For Others | WebEcoist

 

[Alk8944]

Yes, it's a Deer. Yes, it's a Whitetail. It is what is correctly as "Non-Typical" which does not show typical or normal growth characteristics. There are Non-Typical Mule Deer that have a lot more points, and look a lot stranger than that one.

9c1Lover,

A 36 point Deer is quite possible, although it would have to fall into the Non-Typical category. "Points" on Deer are calculated differently depending on species.

Mule Deer are calculated based on point count on one side. If the Deer has 6 points on both sides it is referred to as a 6-point. If more on one side then it would be described as a 6x5, 3x2, etc. This is called "Western Count". To be counted a point must extend 1" or more from the main beam.

Whitetail Deer are scored by what is called "Eastern Count", all points on both sides added together. Because of the background I can't say what the "count" for the Deer in the photo would be, I can't see it well enough.

For some reason I can't get photos to attach from my computer, but go to this site Boone and Crockett Club and scroll down to "Worlds Record Non-Typical Mule Deer", pictured is a 22x21 point (total 43 points) Mule Deer killed in Alberta Canada. The Boone & Crockett Club is the official record-keeping organization for North American Big-Game record date. So, you see, 36 points is not at all impossible, although exceedingly rare.

Typical and Non-Typical Deer records are kept as separate records since they are not directly comparable.

Guess this time it worked! Looks like a shrub on his head, doesn't it?!

JKC,

You are talking about "scoring points", the aggregate of specific dimensions measured from the antlers. A 6 "Point" buck may score 185 scoring points, but conversationally it would be referred to as a "6 Point", not a 185 point deer. No one ever refers to an animal by it's record book score when referring to points, but rather "Point count" literally the number of individual tines over 1" long on the antlers. Definitely an apples and oranges comparison don't you think?

The pictured Mule Deer scored 355 2/8. Wouldn't it sound silly to call it a 355 2/8 point deer in casual conversation? The scoring points do not give any indication at all how many "Points" (tines) the Deer had on it's antlers.

 

[gjamison]

ok guys lets start with this.

A deer with antlers like that are called a non typical. This deer may have
had a injury at one time that affected his antler growth. many years ago one
of my cameras got a picture of a 19 point whitetail with double drop tines, he was an outstanding deer and would have made a great trophy but someone shot him illgally(poached)and the state confiscated the buck.

same thing could have happen to this deer. i would
have been proud to hunt that deer....

PS. photo looks real to me IMHO....

 

[Pete99004]

Most of the deer with racks like that are from the Hanford Nuclear Res. in south central WA. You can pick Huckleberries at night down there as they are easily seen since they glow in the dark.

Pete

 

[jkc]

Yes, it's a Deer. Yes, it's a Whitetail. It is what is correctly as "Non-Typical" which does not show typical or normal growth characteristics. There are Non-Typical Mule Deer that have a lot more points, and look a lot stranger than that one.

9c1Lover,

A 36 point Deer is quite possible, although it would have to fall into the Non-Typical category. "Points" on Deer are calculated differently depending on species.

Mule Deer are calculated based on point count on one side. If the Deer has 6 points on both sides it is referred to as a 6-point. If more on one side then it would be described as a 6x5, 3x2, etc. This is called "Western Count". To be counted a point must extend 1" or more from the main beam.

Whitetail Deer are scored by what is called "Eastern Count", all points on both sides added together. Because of the background I can't say what the "count" for the Deer in the photo would be, I can't see it well enough.

For some reason I can't get photos to attach from my computer, but go to this site Boone and Crockett Club and scroll down to "Worlds Record Non-Typical Mule Deer", pictured is a 22x21 point (total 43 points) Mule Deer killed in Alberta Canada. The Boone & Crockett Club is the official record-keeping organization for North American Big-Game record date. So, you see, 36 points is not at all impossible, although exceedingly rare.

Typical and Non-Typical Deer records are kept as separate records since they are not directly comparable.

Guess this time it worked! Looks like a shrub on his head, doesn't it?!

JKC,

You are talking about "scoring points", the aggregate of specific dimensions measured from the antlers. A 6 "Point" buck may score 185 scoring points, but conversationally it would be referred to as a "6 Point", not a 185 point deer. No one ever refers to an animal by it's record book score when referring to points, but rather "Point count" literally the number of individual tines over 1" long on the antlers. Definitely an apples and oranges comparison don't you think?

The pictured Mule Deer scored 355 2/8. Wouldn't it sound silly to call it a 355 2/8 point deer in casual conversation? The scoring points do not give any indication at all how many "Points" (tines) the Deer had on it's antlers.

Evidently, my explanation wasn't as lucid as I'd hoped ...

As to the question of whether or not it might sound silly to refer to animals by their overall "score", it would sound silly not to among many serious trophy hunters I know. Most trophy hunters would be able to make a reasonably accurate evaluation of a specimen on the hoof, and cite a reasonably accurate rough score for whatever species they are interested in after a thorough field examination. If trophy Coues whitetail or elk hunters were describing a "head" they would almost certainly refer to it by its estimated score rather than by the number of tines. If someone told me they'd killed a "130" Coues or 375 point elk, I might ask which scoring system they were using, but I'd understand what they were talking about.

Awhile back, along a road in Desert Bighorn sheep habitat, I came upon a couple of young men who had set up a forest of tripods supporting high-end binocs, spotting scopes, and video cameras. I stopped to see what they were up to, and trained my binocs on the area they were examining. There was among a small herd of sheep a quite large ram. I said, "I'm no expert on sheep, but the ram in the shade of the palo verde looks to me to go a little better than 168... (the record book minimum entry score) Would you shoot that ram first thing opening morning?"

They replied, "Nope, you're looking at the wrong ram --- the one you're looking at will go 170 or a little better, but the one we want is 40 yards to the right, and he'll go low 180's, and we will kill him on opening morning if we get the chance. That's why we're videoing them both --- we'll study the tapes to make sure we recognize them both, so we don't shoot the "little" one by mistake."

This conversation would have been pointless if the best descriptions we could articulate were " the big ram, with two horns" and the "bigger ram with two horns" --- trophy hunters such as these commonly use score values to describe specimens.

 

[rburg]

used by deranged Texans

A priceless quote. I assume that includes all those posting on this board, and those we've met in person!

 

[OK Hog Shooter]

How do you score the mustache and beard? Looks pretty deer camp typical to me.

 

[mtgianni]

Typical hunters photo of a head held at arms length to make it appear larger. It isn't needed if you understand what you are looking at.

 

[Sprefix]

He's very average for the Chernobyl area...................

 

[jkc]

A priceless quote. I assume that includes all those posting on this board, and those we've met in person!

Mr. Burg, I wish to clarify that in no way or by any means did I intend to cast aspersions on Texans in general by my reference to aficionados of the peculiar and provincial Burkett game scoring system. There may be many other reasons to broadly characterize Texans as deranged, but this example is not among them. Any of you who are actual deranged Texans (and you know who you are) who are not followers of Dr. Burkett's weird cult, please accept my heartfelt apology for any unintended offense, and for those of you who are, I stand by my remark ...