Does a College Degree Pay Off?

[Onomea]

Here's an interesting article from the WaPo that discusses what a college degree costs and compares it to what graduates are making three years later.

Unsurprisingly, it is difficult/impossible to recoup the investment for many liberal arts majors.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2021/11/01/college-degree-value-major/

Within the article is a link to a DOE site that drills down to specific majors at specific colleges: College Scorecard

I don't think the whole purpose of a college education should be to make more money later in life, but sure do believe that is a major reason to attend and graduate. (An exception would be for people who are born rich, but they're few and far between.) I also believe that a liberal arts education -- learning about history, culture, the arts, etc. -- is useful in making for a well rounded person. I believe well rounded people make for better citizens. But I also think for a young person to focus on liberal arts only, and not become educated in a fields that will provide gainful employ, is a mistake.

Perhaps federal loan assistance should require that borrowers study in fields that are likely to lead to the ability to repay their loans. I don't think defaulters, on the whole, start out as deadbeats. I think they are naive.

And as we've discussed here before, the skilled trades have brighter economic futures for many if not most young people.

High school kids don't understand this. I recall my second son, now a middle school school teacher with a master's degree, when asked "Why do you want to go to college?," replied, "To be honest, to have fun."

 

[SMSgt]

It depends.

 

[MRB1]

The need of a college education was drilled into my head beginning in elementary school. My parents were both educated, and they both said that without a degree, I'd "be digging ditches somewhere" as a living. So, I did - got a degree in Biology, and spent the rest of my working life designing parts for fighter aircraft. Lot of good it got me, but it at least got me through the door for a job.

 

[DWalt]

A college degree is merely an entry credential. What success you have after college is up to you. My son graduated from UT with a chemistry degree, but never spent a day working as a chemist. He instead went into surgical device sales for a large company and has done very well at it. In fact he is probably as knowledgeable in orthopedic surgery, if not more so, as most of his customers. But I doubt he would ever have gotten that first job without having a degree in some scientific discipline.

My opinion is that a great many college degrees are essentially worthless, even as entry tickets. Two examples - a first cousin got a Philosophy degree (Plato, Aristotle, etc.) from Ohio U. He spent most of his life working in a carpet store, now retired. A niece got two degrees (BA & MA) in English Literature from the University of Washington, got married, and her career has not progressed beyond being a housewife and mother. And likely never will as the kids keep coming.

 

[alwslate]

I have a college degree. Spent my entire working life until retirement, forty two and a half years, in a totally unrelated field of employment. But I have never regretted going to college for one single minute. It's not all about trying to get a better income. Going to college changes you and your life for the duration.

 

[Onomea]

MRBI, that resonates with me. I think when many of us were young, college was more of a ticket to success at least in part because fewer people went to college.

I majored in liberal arts and wound up in aerospace...

 

[dockmurgw]

I think this illustrates the OP's point nicely.

 

[Rodan]

IMHO, the over emphasis on college degrees over the last couple of generations has done a huge disservice to millions of kids.

Not everyone is cut out for higher education, and a very good living can be made in the trades. Electricians, welders, and HVAC techs will always be needed. Experts in 12th century lesbian poetry... not so much.

I have a bachelor's degree in my field, from a State school; I paid as I went, and graduated with zero student debt. That degree has contributed exactly nothing to my career, but would have been a requirement to get in the door with some agencies. I had originally intended to pursue a masters, but saw no ROI, so I never did.

My wife has a bachelors, which was an entry requirement for her career. She eventually also got a masters, which has contributed little, and we're still paying that off.

Education costs, like health care costs, have skyrocketed because of government meddling. I probably could not have achieved my degree today without debt. Pushing kids into that kind of debt without considering the ROI is reprehensible.

 

[kozmic]

My wife and I went to our favorite ice cream shop and as usual the server had a college tip can by his station. I asked him where he's going, he told me a nearby, $75k per year private university and my alma mater. I asked him his major and he said "library studies". Apparently I laughed out loud because my wife kicked me in the shin so hard it actually brought tears to my eyes.
The moral of the story never openly ridicule or laugh at someone for taking perhaps the most useless major in the history of higher education. Especially if your wife is close enough do to bodily harm.

 

[fordson]

In the '60s, going to college was the exception, not the rule. Most of my high school classmates didn't go on to college. I graduated from college (over 50 years ago) with a degree in Aeronautical Engineering. Two subsequent graduate degrees (Mechanical Engineering and Propulsion Systems/Gas Dynamics) set me up for my career choice: aerospace. In my case, a college degree in my chosen field worked out.

 

[dockmurgw]

What Rodan said. I'm not naive enough to suggest that a college education is not critically important, for certain professions. I barely made it out of H.S., so you don't want me behind the wheel of a Dreamliner, or a scalpel performing surgery, or handling your legal affairs, etc. But the proliferation of degrees that do nothing but get kids to where they used to be after high school is mind boggling. I never stepped foot in a college and earn an extremely respectable salary. I had to beg my sons high school principal to let him graduate. He turned 18 on Parris Island. He now manages a truck lease and repair facility, and does quite nicely. My daughter is the university graduate, and chose a career that only needed a GED...a State Trooper. College isn't for everyone, its a shame that so many kids today have been convinced they will never succeed at anything without college.

 

[Tom K]

MRBI, that resonates with me. I think when many of us were young, college was more of a ticket to success at least in part because less people went to college.

I majored in liberal arts and wound up in aerospace...

...fewer...

What was your degree in again?

I graduated with a BS in mechanical design technology. Although I might have been considered slightly underqualified, I spent 34 years as an aerospace engineer. The degree certainly got me in the door, to prove that I was in fact qualified.

 

[Onomea]

...fewer...

What was your degree in again?

I graduated with a BS in mechanical design technology. Although I might have been considered slightly underqualified, I spent 34 years as an aerospace engineer. The degree certainly got me in the door, to prove that I was in fact qualified.

Touché! Went back and changed it.

PhD in East Asian Languages and Cultures.

 

[Grayfox]

Way back when I was young, everybody pounded it into your head that you just had to go to college. Back in those days I believe employers were more interested in the fact that you went rather than what you actually studied. I degree was simply a door opener.
However, these days it just ain't true. The world is full of college graduates that can't find a job because now specialty skills are what's in demand and these kids studied the wrong things.
Honestly, I think a lot of these college kids have the wrong attitude. They still believe that just any degree will open the world to them. So they think college is just party time. They make it as easy on themselves as possible by choosing easy, do nothing classes. Then they end up with some worthless degree and a ton of debt. That's when reality sets in.
I believe that most liberal arts degrees are pretty much a complete waste of time and money. Unless you intend to become a teacher.
Many science degrees are the same. A degree in biology, astronomy or such is all well and good, but really how many job openings are there in these fields? The competition is tough.
Engineers are in great demand. But again, it all about what field you're in. Anything to do with electronics or computers, the field is absolutely glutted. Every gamer kid in the world wants to be a programmer, game designer or such. Now a days, the real success in the computer field is the guys who FIX them.
OTOH, there is a huge demand for civil, mechanical, electrical engineers and such. Most of these students have good jobs waiting for them when they graduate.

The simple fact is that college push has now resulted in a lack of skilled workers.
Today I tell young people forget college. The real demand now is for skilled labor. Carpenters, plumbers, electricians, mechanics, people who are willing to get their hands dirty. These jobs are in huge demand as there aren't enough people to fill them.
No, they ain't glamorous, but they pay well and provide good job security.

My parents pushed me hard to go to college. But I worried about the financial burden it would put on them. Instead, I joined the Army and became a mechanic. I didn't get rich at it. But I did provide a good living for my family for 42 years and now am comfortable in retirement.

Remember that old T-shirt:
"I have a degree in liberal arts!
Would you like fries with that?"

 

[Muss Muggins]

Mine got me in the door. I would not have been interviewed without it. I then got a Master's Degree, because I would not have promoted without one. My former agency now doesn't consider applicants without a Master's. My son's got him in the door. He will also have to get his Master's to advance.

That being said, we both work/worked in our fields. I can understand the logic that just getting a degree, any degree, may not be your best idea. I was a solid C student in my undergrad days, and I regularly let "going to college" interfere with my education . . .

 

[zeke]

Anymore, it seems to depend if the college degree is actually functional and in demand. Literally was a "ditch digger", pipe layer and concrete finisher for over a decade. Got an environmental engineering degree at age 35, and actually used the fundamentals learned for over 25 years.

Which brings to mind, what does the libral arts major ask the eng major? Want fries with that?

Nowadays, would not automatically recommend a college degree over a highly skilled blue collar profession that you could physically handle till retirement.

IMO, the days of any degree opening up doors to unrelated professions are pretty much over.

 

[Onomea]

Coding school, coding as in computer programming, is a good option, too.

I think these schools last about three months. A friend of my son's was/is a talented musician. Graduated from one of, if not the, best music colleges in the country. Not a whole lot of openings for saxophone players though. Went to a three-month coding school, makes good money and enjoys his work.

 

[Toyman]

I got an AA degree in criminal justice in 1969, became a LEO when I turned 21. Went back to college in 1982 and graduated in 1984 with BA in criminal justice, quit 4 years later and ran my own business. Paid as I went no debt.
My wife got a BS in nursing and worked as a RN for 40 years, the degree helped her.
My son got a BA in criminal justice and psychology and minor in political science. He is employed in law enforcement and gets $800 per year of degree.

 

[vt_shooter]

People shouldn't be allowed to borrow money to pay for degrees that are not in demand, 'cause too often they don't pay it back. Or they demand their neighbors pay their loans back for them, via government forgiveness.

 

[Bekeart]

My degree proved that I was educable.
I could study enough to pass the tests.
My classes were useful in my "no-degree required" jobs.
A degree only show that you can pass tests.
A degree is no indication of common sense.
A degree does not indicate any skill at solving new problems.
e.g. There was not a degree course that taught the Wright Brothers aircraft design.

I have worked at three Universities and have been unimpressed by many with PhD. following their name.
At one University the building custodian had more common sense than all others, myself included.

Bekeart