nicky4968
Member
If you changed the word "meeting" to "meet," you would change the basic meaning from "association" to "competition" or "contest".
Don't know where to ask my question...
- Thread starter Philblack
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Ok Nicky, I got that. It is very interesting. But what about the following :
I got from what you all said that these two words together ("Service shooting") – followed by Meet for instance – can't ever be used to designate a "Small arms shooting competion" (which seems to be very much more appropriate), where civilian shooters will use military pistols and rifles to shoot on targets.
So did I get it right ?
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kraigwy
US Veteran
Service Rifle, or Service Pistol are matches limited to (duh) Service (Military) Rifles and Pistols. Normally as issued or with minor improvements.
Go to the NRA and/or CMP websites and see their rules for the Service Rifle & Pistols, and Service Rifle and Pistol Matches.
There are normally two classes, NRA Match Rifle, and Service Rifle. For example in NRA MR, you can shoot bolt guns, space guns, etc, Service rifle is limited to M1s, M14 or their civilian equilevent, M16 or their civilian equilevent.
The "meeting" part normally means "match".
Go to the NRA and/or CMP websites and see their rules for the Service Rifle & Pistols, and Service Rifle and Pistol Matches.
There are normally two classes, NRA Match Rifle, and Service Rifle. For example in NRA MR, you can shoot bolt guns, space guns, etc, Service rifle is limited to M1s, M14 or their civilian equilevent, M16 or their civilian equilevent.
The "meeting" part normally means "match".
The key here is that when "service" immediately precedes "pistol," or "rifle," or most any other noun, it is normally presumed to modify that noun. Or maybe it ALWAYS modifies that noun, if, in fact, the word in question is being used as a noun. In "service shooting competition," or in "service match," it therefore modifies "competition" or "match," thus perhaps implying that the participants are military. Over here, of course, civilians often hold such matches, or participate in them when they are run by the military, so there's not a lot of confusion here.
Thus, a service pistol match is usually presumed to be a match involving service pistols, although it could mean a pistol match run by or in the style of the service. [Esoteric point not followed much any more: the former should actually be spelled "service-pistol match." But I have NEVER seen it spelled that way, probably because over here the two effectively mean the same thing, as noted in the previous paragraph.]
You hypothesize "I got from what you all said that these two words together ("Service shooting") – followed by Meet for instance – can't ever be used to designate a "Small arms shooting competion" (which seems to be very much more appropriate), where civilian shooters will use military pistols and rifles to shoot on targets." Surely you can, but it will sound strange and perhaps be misunderstood. If you mean for the word "service" to describe a weapon type, then that is the word which it should immediately precede.
Thus, a service pistol match is usually presumed to be a match involving service pistols, although it could mean a pistol match run by or in the style of the service. [Esoteric point not followed much any more: the former should actually be spelled "service-pistol match." But I have NEVER seen it spelled that way, probably because over here the two effectively mean the same thing, as noted in the previous paragraph.]
You hypothesize "I got from what you all said that these two words together ("Service shooting") – followed by Meet for instance – can't ever be used to designate a "Small arms shooting competion" (which seems to be very much more appropriate), where civilian shooters will use military pistols and rifles to shoot on targets." Surely you can, but it will sound strange and perhaps be misunderstood. If you mean for the word "service" to describe a weapon type, then that is the word which it should immediately precede.
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That's what I thought, but in fact there won't be any military guy in this match, unless they will participate as civilians.
Then, if the terms mainly designate a military contest, this will not suit, am I wrong ?...
Then, if the terms mainly designate a military contest, this will not suit, am I wrong ?...
Which terms? If you say "service pistol match," it does NOT clearly say that only service members may participate, and in the US it will probably be assumed that civilians WILL participate, as in the past. If you say "service shooting," you are not saying much, but you would appear to be talking about military folks. If you say "service markmanship competition," the words seem to indicate that you are talking about what takes place in the service. Then you would be wrong, although some might read far enough to understand what you are talking about. If you say "service match," which really means the same thing, English-speaking people west of the Atlantic will presume that you are talking about a service-style match or a service match that civilians probably participate in, because there's a lot of that over here, and they are often called service matches.
Hope this helps.
Yes I was talking about the terms "service shooting". I know that "service pistols" is meaningful, or "service rifle" or even "service rifle & pistol"... Service here means clearly that this pistol is a military pistol (or military rifle). Forgive for my poor english 
And "service pistol" doesn't mean especially that only military military folks are going to shoot this gun. It only describes a handgun that is generally used by soldiers for example, but civilians may shoot it also.
My example : I own a S&W 22 of 1917. It is (was) a service revolver at its time, but I (civilian) can use it. Like a 1911 too.
But thanx a lot, Model520fa, you really helped me a lot like you all did !
And "service pistol" doesn't mean especially that only military military folks are going to shoot this gun. It only describes a handgun that is generally used by soldiers for example, but civilians may shoot it also.
My example : I own a S&W 22 of 1917. It is (was) a service revolver at its time, but I (civilian) can use it. Like a 1911 too.
But thanx a lot, Model520fa, you really helped me a lot like you all did !
all in all very interesting, as there are times when certain words ,in English, just may be "interpretted" to another language, in this case "meet"?? ( as said above, as in a contest/competition ,such as 'track meet'........ the answer above,by ARMinSC, is pretty "smack on the money" , but then one has to add in "high power' or smalll bore"....yikes, this can get really drawn out.........
bottom line ,we , as shooters , know exactly what you are trying to say, but its English teachers ,or folks who are "politically correct" cannot put the two together..... for you,bottom line it is the common folk ( civilians) getting together to shoot a competition (meet) ,but using only military type or vintage firearms....yes, your 1917 may be military but they also made them as civilian issue. There is LOTS of 'crossover'................
confusing to say the least, we are spoiled here in the States, as we can do it all, and in so many ways, civilian, military,law enforcement,etc., as well as at so many different levels, local, state, national ,and even international..........
Good luck to you and your 'shooting event'....be safe
bottom line ,we , as shooters , know exactly what you are trying to say, but its English teachers ,or folks who are "politically correct" cannot put the two together..... for you,bottom line it is the common folk ( civilians) getting together to shoot a competition (meet) ,but using only military type or vintage firearms....yes, your 1917 may be military but they also made them as civilian issue. There is LOTS of 'crossover'................
confusing to say the least, we are spoiled here in the States, as we can do it all, and in so many ways, civilian, military,law enforcement,etc., as well as at so many different levels, local, state, national ,and even international..........
Good luck to you and your 'shooting event'....be safe
Sounds good to me, except maybe that "weapons" is a bit too vague.
I thought maybe ISASM could make it : International Small Arms Shooting Match . What do you think of it ? Even without "Shooting", I dunno : ISAM)
Thanks to Dant and to you all, you've been a real great help to me !
I thought maybe ISASM could make it : International Small Arms Shooting Match . What do you think of it ? Even without "Shooting", I dunno : ISAM)
Thanks to Dant and to you all, you've been a real great help to me !
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Bullseye Smith
Member
How about service shooting match, which I would think could be a service pistol match. In the old days of PPC they came up with a Service Revolver Match section. I bet they have a pistol match now.
If you read the whole thread, you'll see that "service pistol" is ok, "service revolver" is ok, "service rifle" is still ok but "service shooting what you want (match, meet, event, competition, cup, challenge...)" concerns the type of persons who are shooting (soldiers, policemen), not the service (or not, actually, I guess) weapons they are shooting with.
That's what I understood. But I may be wrong...
That's what I understood. But I may be wrong...
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