Double base powders and magnum primers

[PapaWheelie]

I have read that magnum primers can provide better reliability and ignition when using double base ball and spherical powders. The majority of my reloading is .38, .357 and .45 acp using True Blue and 231, both double base ball. Most of the 45 and 38 loads are light to medium, rarely maxed.

Has anyone seen noticeable results using magnum primers, both large and small, on light pistol loads? Light meaning paper target loads.

 

[WR Moore]

Search is your friend, this is just the first thread I found scrolling the contents of the Reloading first page.

Substituting SP Magnum primers.....

 

[rockquarry]

If you have plenty of both, try both. However, if you're interested in best accuracy, consider working up the load with the new primer instead of just switching primers and using the same powder charge. Shoot some 25 yard groups. It may make a difference or may not but you won't know until you give it a try. Good luck-

 

[PapaWheelie]

Search is your friend, this is just the first thread I found scrolling the contents of the Reloading first page.

Substituting SP Magnum primers.....

Seriously I have searched and read quite a bit before posting here, even going back to 1985 editions. I have read many different posts on different sites but I have not found any who has personally used magnums in target loads with ball powders. Unfortunately winter snow has limited my access to the range.

 

[OKFC05]

Never used True Blue, but have decades of experience with HP38 (or WIN231, same powder) in competition loads of .38 and 9mm handguns.
With the shortage of preferred Federal SPP, several competitors tested other primers with the result of small differences observed in some tests that did not pass the test for statistical significance. In plain English, any observed difference could happen by random chance, and no positive or negative results could be proven.
This is not surprising, as dozens of tests have shown the bullet choice has the most effect, then the powder, and the primers the least in medium powered target loads, particularly when shooting at 25 yds or less in a pistol match. I test my pistol loads to 100 yards to check for stability, and it is no great trick to shoot a water bottle off the 100yd target frame using the same pistol and HP38 load I use for IDPA, regardless of primer used.
I've had some spectacular failures in loading, in particular some .40 S&W loaded to major power that shot patterns, not groups. That turned out to be a bullet problem, solved by using a different bullet.

 

[PapaWheelie]

Thanks OKFC05, I didn't want to buy LPM primers unless it would be worthwhile. I figured the difference would be small but always looking for the little edge with the 45.

 

[rockquarry]

Never used True Blue, but have decades of experience with HP38 (or WIN231, same powder) in competition loads of .38 and 9mm handguns.
With the shortage of preferred Federal SPP, several competitors tested other primers with the result of small differences observed in some tests that did not pass the test for statistical significance. In plain English, any observed difference could happen by random chance, and no positive or negative results could be proven.
This is not surprising, as dozens of tests have shown the bullet choice has the most effect, then the powder, and the primers the least in medium powered target loads, particularly when shooting at 25 yds or less in a pistol match. I test my pistol loads to 100 yards to check for stability, and it is no great trick to shoot a water bottle off the 100yd target frame using the same pistol and HP38 load I use for IDPA, regardless of primer used.
I've had some spectacular failures in loading, in particular some .40 S&W loaded to major power that shot patterns, not groups. That turned out to be a bullet problem, solved by using a different bullet.

Good for you; 100 yard testing would certainly provide more meaningful results than doing it at 25. I can still see iron sights well enough for 25 or 50 yard bench shooting with a handgun but I've never gone beyond that.

As I think about it, 100 yards might be possible even for me if I experimented some with the target size. It seems that would be a critical factor. Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

[Nevada Ed]

A long time ago I used a lot of winchester standard primers in my 38, 357 and 9mm loads, with ball powders.

I never had a fial to fire with the Winchester small pistol primers.

I did use some wspm with some 357 loads with the slower HS-6 powder
and all went well with good accuracy, fps and low ES.

The standard wspp might be a little warmer than the standard cci primer
since they do use ball powder but I have no way of finding out.

I just know that the wspp, works with Winchester powders.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

As to the original question: NO. No difference I could perceive.

Cheers!

 

[DWalt]

If you are serious and interested enough to get a statistically significant comparative grouping performance test result, at a minimum you will need to fire at least five 10-shot groups of each load (more than five groups is better) over a very steady rest, and take the average of the extreme spreads of all groups fired for each load. To do anything less is a total waste of time and ammunition. Firing a few five-shot groups will give you very little information of value and you might just as well do nothing. This is not just an opinion, it is a hard mathematical fact.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

As to the original question: NO. No difference I could perceive.

Cheers!

I agree, same for me.

I have found the faster ball powder don't benefit from a magnum primer but the slower ones definitely do. Powders like HS-6, Longshot and W296/H110 do. For some unknown reason AA#7 and AA#9 don't seem to need them.

I have not tested the fairly new W572 for primer preference but I did with W244 and like W231 magnum primers are not necessary.

The now discontinued W540 which is HS-6 and W571/HS-7 also benefited from the use of a magnum primer.

 

[BillBro]

TrueBlue had risen to the top of my powder choices. Ive used that stuff, with some incredible results, for every caliber I reload albeit not many. Never used a mag primer with it that I recall right now but I can go through my log tonight and verify. I have always gotten standard deviations as low as 3 but theyre almost always in the single digits and spreads in the low double digits, as in 30 or less.

9mm, 38/357, 10mm, 45acp, 44mag/Spl. TrueBlue will do it all for me. Im not saying it is the best for all of these but nearly for certain needs.

 

[PapaWheelie]

TrueBlue had risen to the top of my powder choices. Ive used that stuff, with some incredible results, for every caliber I reload albeit not many. Never used a mag primer with it that I recall right now but I can go through my log tonight and verify. I have always gotten standard deviations as low as 3 but theyre almost always in the single digits and spreads in the low double digits, as in 30 or less.

9mm, 38/357, 10mm, 45acp, 44mag/Spl. TrueBlue will do it all for me. Im not saying it is the best for all of these but nearly for certain needs.

I really like True Blue also. One of the reasons I started to read and ask about double base powders is in my 686 I loaded a batch with 5.2g of True Blue with a 158g coated swc and, due to shortages, CCI small rifle primers which I understand to be the same as the CCI small pistol magnum primers. This has been the most accurate loading I have done by far. It makes me look good sometimes and is my go to now.
I just started shooting .45s and have used TB in it as well. Before spending a hundred bucks on a brick of LPM primers to change from the current LP, I figured I'd ask to see if it would be worthwhile.

 

[OKFC05]

"As I think about it, 100 yards might be possible even for me if I experimented some with the target size. It seems that would be a critical factor. Any thoughts or suggestions?"

I prefer a liter size bottle, rest my hand on a sandbag, and aim so the cap on the bottle sits on top of the front sight. If the sights are set correctly for 50 yd shots, the bullet should hit near the center of the bottle at 100 yd. Watch out for crosswinds and aim upwind as needed.

One of my service buddies, who had been on the pistol team at West Point, loved to challenge shooters to shooting clay pigeons off 100yd backstop with iron sighted .45 1911s. Knowledge of trajectory and practice help, so start on something that you can see where each shot goes.

 

[243winxb]

WSPM & WLP cover all my handguns.