Dump Pouch?

[JayFramer]

I recently bought a S&W branded revolver "dump pouch", or "drop pouch" etc.

From what I've read these were used in days gone by to hold spare shells. They are a break tip down affair with metal inserts that drop all six rounds into your hand:

I've read some criticisms of the concept, that the rounds are easy to fumble and drop, and that it's pretty slow and clumsy. I practiced reloading them and found it pretty fast but nowhere near as quick as with a speedloader. Still they were widely used by many departments across the US.

Anyone ever use these? What are your thoughts/opinions on them? This one seems to work pretty nicely and I like it. Only cost $10 and figured it'd be fun to work on reloading drills the old school cop way.

-Jay

 

[OldSarge21]

Looks like it might work pretty well in conjunction with a speed strip instead of the metal insert. Better control of the ammo strip as it slides out in one unit. I like that the ammo pouch lies flatter to the belt than a round speed loader.

 

[Iggy]

We went from belt loops with 12 spare rounds to dump boxes to speed loaders in about a decade. As you say they aren't as fast as speed loaders.
The only disadvantage to speed loaders was the bulk on your belt. You could catch them on the steering wheel or things pretty easy.

 

[armorer951]

I carried the pouches, the loop type carriers, and eventually speedloaders while in Uniform Division. After using these over a period of years, with practice, I actually eventually preferred the loops to the dump box. Speedloaders were also very good, but you had to practice regularly with them....and the revolver had to have grips that accomodated the speedloader.

The pouches were very hard to load out of, particularly under stress, when some of the live rounds would frequently end up on the ground. It was very hard, actually impossible, to control how many pieces of ammo came out at a time. Many officers carried the rounds in speed stips, and placed the loaded speed strips inside the pouch, which added a degree of control over the individual rounds.

I believe this reloading "drill" is part of the reason that pistols finally became the norm for carry back in the 70's and 80's. Autoloaders provided both extra capacity, and, reloading became faster.

 

[JayCeeNC]

Wore one for many years; it's what was issued and I had no choice.
I did eventually pick up some Speed Strips and carried my 6 rounds in strips in the pouch. Much faster and more secure.

 

[JayFramer]

Very cool, thank you gang.

I tucked some speed strips in the pouches and it does work very nicely after removing the metal inserts (won't fit otherwise). Fit much flatter to the body than my speedloader pouch. I can see this being very useful for carry.

 

[apollo99]

The good old dump pouches, guaranteed to dump 6 rounds onto the street during a gun fight.

 

[kennyb]

I carried these for a few years...prior even to speed strips...I have never seen the metal insert

 

[daddy bear]

I went to work in '59 using loops. Later the dep't issued dumps. After a short while, I opted to return to loops. Somewhere in the '66-68 time frame, I made the regional pistol team. Speed loaders from there on. At the state meet that year, some teams were unaware of the rule changes and we walked away with the team PPC trophy. No like dump boxes!

Jack

 

[spdguns]

Wow, thanks for the memories. When I started on the job, we had to load from loops. Model 15 with wadcutters at the range.

 

[Old cop]

Our agency issued those in the late ‘60s and a close friend was shot trying to reload in a gunfight w/an armed robber in 1974. We were trained to load two rounds at a time, rotating the cylinder to the left, but it was still difficult w/six rounds wiggling around in your hand. I was able to shoot the bad guy and reload w/my [unauthorized] speedloader very quickly.

 

[moosedog]

I was issued those in Detroit back in the late 1970's. Just a bit ahead of ball and musket in technology.

 

[BE Mike]

The metal inserts are in the pouch to keep it from collapsing inward and making it hard to get the ammo out. Leather does change form over time. Funny to see what is now ancient history was common back in the 70's and before. I am a relic!

 

[WR Moore]

Did the loops/dump pouch/speedloader dance myself. Dump pouches led to a trend to teach kneeling/squatting to reload. That way, any rounds you dropped were at least close at hand. (You were also supposed to eject your empties away at an angle so they weren't in the same place as any dropped live rounds.) Particularly a good idea in the dark.

Come to think of it, after Newhall, reloading less than a full cylinder from loops/pouch/pocket became part of the training too.

 

[rednichols]

Did the loops/dump pouch/speedloader dance myself. Dump pouches led to a trend to teach kneeling/squatting to reload. That way, any rounds you dropped were at least close at hand. (You were also supposed to eject your empties away at an angle so they weren't in the same place as any dropped live rounds.) Particularly a good idea in the dark.

Come to think of it, after Newhall, reloading less than a full cylinder from loops/pouch/pocket became part of the training too.

Tell 'em about Newhall.

 

[rednichols]

I believe this reloading "drill" is part of the reason that pistols finally became the norm for carry back in the 70's and 80's. Autoloaders provided both extra capacity, and, reloading became faster.

Autos were by no means 'the norm' in the '70s. There were exceptional departments, though, with the press in favour that began with Cooper in the '60s.

They became the norm -- beginning with the adoption of the Beretta by the U.S. Armed Forces 1985/6. Which led the charge in particular for DA 9mm double stacks that had been around since the M59 Smith.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Thanks for the memories! I remember seeing all the local police carrying such pouches and I remember discussions about the difficulty in their use.

I think the use of automatic pistols by police departments was triggered (no pun intended) by the Miami incident in the mid-1980s.

 

[Old cop]

We transitioned to the Glock in the ‘80s and the guns came in very quickly, but some nucklehead in admin forgot to order the leather gear. You cannot make this stuff up!

 

[WR Moore]

I won't name the major city, but back in the 60s-70, the Traffic Division seemed to all have 4 inch (swivel) revolver holsters. The problem being that the guns were mostly 6 inch and a couple stray 5 inch.

 

[JayFramer]

Guys I thank you all so much, it is EXTREMELY COOL to hear from men who've used these in service. It also appears they weren't such a popular item!

 

[Steve912]

Tell 'em about Newhall.

I was thinking one officer (Pence?) dropped some. And then there was pocketing the expended brass..."how you train is how you fight".

 

[Piwo]

Our department issued two speedloaders and the Safariland "split six" belt holders. We were trained in the academy with the speedloaders as well as loading loose rounds from the pocket! Loose rounds in the pocket was considered a viable way to carry back up ammo to the speedloaders. We were not restricted as to amount or manner in which we carried extra ammo. It seems I had a lot more dexterity back then. If I try to speed load loose rounds now it I usually get a case of the "dropsies."

 

[Buford57]

The good old dump pouches, guaranteed to dump 6 rounds onto the street during a gun fight.

Or any other kind of fight, for that matter. I used speed strips once I discovered them. Made it easier to pick the rounds up after.

And the drill: load 6, fire 6, load 6, fire 2, load 2, fire 6. Repeat as necessary.

 

[just plain joe]

As long as we're swinging down memory lane....

When I first became an officer, I carried a Model 15 in a Safariland Model 229 Border Patrol Holster, basket-weave pattern was required.

At first I carried my spare 12 cartridges in a Safariland Model 78HV dump pouch. The pouch employed velcro tabs to keep the pouch tops covered, but also had a metal clasp to keep the pouch itself from rotating downward when the velcro tabs were released. Safariland included plastic inner liners to maintain the shape of the pouches. You could load 6 loose rounds OR remove the plastic liners and insert a Bianchi Speed Strip that held 6 rounds. This setup with the Speed Strips worked for me. Downside, under exigent circumstances, you might forcefully remove the strip/rounds and have one or more come loose from the strip. That's where the practice came in. I liked this setup as it was neat, trim, business-like AND permitted partial reloads.

When they became available, I went to a Safariland Model 350-2 speed-loader carrier. This permitted carrying two six-round speed-loaders for my K-Frame. Downside, added bulk and inability to partially reload. TANSTAFFL.

I still have these articles. Congratulations, you own a part of history.

 

[VaTom]

Had drop pouches back in the 1970s. Not the "fancy" ones like the OP has but just the plain ones with snaps on bottom. A lot of officers used speed strips. I did not. More that once rounds were dumped on the line up room floor or locker room floor when some wise guy joker on your platoon would walk by and unsnap one of another officers pouches.

 

[Tom-R2]

We too went from the 12 belt loop holders to these dump pouches before moving to speed-loaders. Guys at the PD were constantly reaching over and unsnapping them, causing the rounds to drop all over the floor. About the time you got them all picked up, they unsnapped the other one and there you go again. I took some velcro and some strong fabric glue and stuck it to the dump pouch to hold them upright if they were only unsnapped. It didn't interfere with grabbing them and dumping them out into your hand when you wanted, just stopped them from dumping prematurely. Later, some officers started using speed strips and that helped. It was a big improvement over the belt loops and more compact than the speed-loaders that always seemed to bang against stuff. They are certainly functional, especially with hunting or field work, but won't be as fast as a speed-loader.

 

[jimmyj]

I carried a double dump pouch plus a 12 round cartridge loop slide, Jordan Border Patrol holster, handcuff pouch,and a baton ring.
***secret: carried 12 loose rounds in my front pants pocket because I could reload faster with 12 loose rounds then fooling with the dump pouch and cartridge slide. ( however under stress I always wished for something belt fed)

 

[keith44spl]

I too, used them...........

Sometimes still do.

.

 

[kthom]

Keith,
Did you make that ranger style basketweave belt for yourself? I sure admire that one. I'd like to have one that uses a 3/4" billet for the buckle set. I'd also like to have the belt made from double thickness leather. So far, I've not been able to find anyone who does that sort of thing, but I haven't checked with all the belt makers either. Do you have any ideas where I might be able to get one made?
That is a very nice looking rig in the bottom picture. And the one up top sure brings back lots of memories for me. My cartridge carrier was a 12 loop slide instead of the dump pouches and my handcuff case had a snap flap over the cuffs. I had a cartridge slide made with a strip of leather between the loops and the slide which made the cartridges stand slightly proud of the slide. The bottom of the loops were tapered down to the bottom so that it was easy to catch two cartridges with my fingers and press them upward easily between my thumb and two fingers for removal and reloading. Got the idea from the 18 round competition belt slides that became available during the years of PPC revolver competion. With lots of practice, I could reload pretty quickly and smoothly from that loop loader. I also usually carried an H&K speedloader or two if I was wearing a jacket or coat during cool weather just to have some extra loads. But the belt slide was regulation required!

The well made Jordan style holsters were sure an improvement for duty wear. I modified my safety strap to fit between the rear sight and hammer spur of my Model 19 to allow it to be slipped easily forward and off rather than having to unsnap the strap. Worked well for me. I see that your safety strap on the bottom high ride (also very nice!) is also configured that way. Did I say that I really like that bottom rig? Nice job!

 

[SG-688]

Some pouches would hold 7 rounds.

Some pouch designs did not fold; the snap flap was on the bottom.

Some designs - non-folding - had a snapped flap on both top and bottom.

I was thinking one officer (Pence?) dropped some. And then there was pocketing the expended brass..."how you train is how you fight".

See Newhall Shooting, A Tactical Analysis by Mike Wood – also of the revolverguy blog.

Wood found that the pocketing of empty brass did not happen. The empty brass on the ground is documented in the CHP case file.