"Duplicates the factory 158 grain semi-wadcutter"

[Wayne02]

I'm delving into reloading using commercial cast bullets and have started reading through the Lyman 49th edition.

Under the sections for .38 and .357 it states, "Bullet #358429 closely duplicates the factory 158 grain semi-wadcutter (Elmer Keith design)".

Yet when I look up bullet #358429 in the tables it is listed as, "170 gr.(Linotype)". How is it that a 170 grain duplicates a 158 grain?

Thanks
Wayne

 

[Wayne02]

I'm delving into reloading using commercial cast bullets and have started reading through the Lyman 49th edition.

Under the sections for .38 and .357 it states, "Bullet #358429 closely duplicates the factory 158 grain semi-wadcutter (Elmer Keith design)".

Yet when I look up bullet #358429 in the tables it is listed as, "170 gr.(Linotype)". How is it that a 170 grain duplicates a 158 grain?

Thanks
Wayne

 

[Paul5388]

Wayne,

I really don't think the 358429 weighs 170 gr cast in Linotype or even #2 Alloy. Mine weigh about 168 gr using wheel weights cut 50/50 with pure lead. That alloy has more lead, the heavy component, than Linotype or #2 Alloy, so mine are heavier than what would normally be encountered. Regardless, they still won't be 158 gr with the lighter alloys.

The factory duplicate is really a 158 gr Phil Sharpe design.

 

[Wayne02]

Originally posted by Paul5388:
Wayne,

I really don't think the 358429 weighs 170 gr cast in Linotype or even #2 Alloy. Mine weigh about 168 gr using wheel weights cut 50/50 with pure lead. That alloy has more lead, the heavy component, than Linotype or #2 Alloy, so mine are heavier than what would normally be encountered. Regardless, they still won't be 158 gr with the lighter alloys.

The factory duplicate is really a 158 gr Phil Sharpe design.

Thanks for the reply, I guess I'm just confused with the cross reference in the book from 158 in the intro of the load section to 170 in the table section under the same load number 358429.

 

[Paul5388]

Wayne,

Lyman 49th Edition certainly does say what you quoted. However, if you compare an original factory load with a 358429, I think you'll find the factory load has a shorter nose than the Lyman does.

It seems like I've read somewhere that Elmer and Phil Sharpe worked with S&W on the cartridge design and they settled on the 158 gr bullet Sharpe designed instead of Elmer's slightly heavier bullet. I know it was notorious for its leading, which doesn't sound like something Elmer would be in favor of.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Wayne,
Here is a picture of my H&G #290BB bullet. This is of the design you speak of that is loaded commercially, kinda. It has a shorter nose than the 358429 which is supposed to be similar to the H&G #51 designed by Sharpe. They were originally designed to fit in the "N" frame's shorter cylinder. Something the 358429 doesn't do when seated to the crimp groove, or so I've heard.
As cast, 80% wheel weights, 20% Linotype this bullet weighs about 165gr. I have no leading with this bullet and have driven it to over 1500fps from a Marlin 1894 rifle.
I know that this is more information than you asked for but hey, I got to writing and forgot to stop!

 

[Paul5388]

As I'm sitting here drinking coffee, my brain is starting to function, but not too good yet!

The registered magnum has the same cylinder length as the P&R M27 and M28. The 358429 will not fit in the cylinders when crimped in the groove. That leads me to believe the 358429 would have never been used, since it wouldn't fit in the gun that was first designed for the .357 Mag.

Then I also began to think about the 358477, which does fit in P&R .357s.

Compared to the 358429.

If I'm not mistaken, the 358429 was designed for the .38/44 and other .38 Specials where the nose length is a non-issue.

 

[1x2]

smith crazy,

You send me a bucket or two of those any time you're ready. E-mail me for my address

.

1x2

 

[Paul5388]

I finally got around to sizing and lubing some RCBS 38-150-KTs (they're called 38-150-SWC now).

They shoot pretty good out of my 4" M&P, so I loaded a box of so tonight with 5.2 gr of SR 4756 and a CCI 500.