Duplicating the British 38-200

[Green Frog]

I’ve recently acquired a post War Transitional Terrier to go with my other I frames and was horrified at the price of the only factory loads at my LGS… Fiocchi “Cowboy Action” loads in 38 S&W Short(??) priced at $59.95 +tax for a box of 50!) I can find some standard 38 S&W loads in my reloading books, but I’m wondering about the British military spec loads in 38-200. Does anyone have a favorite load to duplicate this round and have you tried it in an I frame? Interested in actual experience only, please.
TIA~

 

[Krogen]

Not a load, per se, but for bullets check out Matt's Bullets. He makes appropriate 200 gr bullets. I learned to pick the right variation. The longer profile didn't fit in my Webley cylinder. Matt explains the differences on his site:

38 Smith & Wesson

 

[DWalt]

The most important thing is finding a load that shoots close to the sights. You will have to do that yourself for your gun, no one can tell you that. Any particular reason you want to duplicate the old British Mk1 load? Nothing at all special to recommend it for any purpose. BTW, any .358 lead bullets for the .38 Special will work fine in a .38 S&W handgun. SAAMI minimum spec for the ,38 S&W bullet is 0.355”. No need to chase around finding .361 bullets. I would use only cast lead bullets. Personally, I use 125 grain .358 cast bullets. Some like .38 hollow base wadcutter bullets. In a solid frame revolver, you can safely and easily duplicate the performance of any standard .38 Special load if you wish. https://sites.google.com/site/britmilammo/-380-inch-revolver

One more thing. The .38 Short Colt cartridge factory load can be used in any .38 S&W revolver, despite its having a hair smaller case diameter. But it is a fairly puny load, comparable to the .38 S&W factory load. It is also difficult to find. I believe that may be the “.38 S&W Short” you mentioned. It is basically a shortened .38 Special case, not the same as the .38 S&W.

 

[old tanker]

The NEI #169A bullet 2.0 grains of Bullseye pretty well duplicates the British service load, 200 grain bullet at 650 fps. I have shot it in British Service revolvers and Colt's Police Positives. I have not shot it any I-frame or any top-breaks other than the Enfield. Matt's bullets is the place to go if you don't roll your own.

 

[Green Frog]

Thanks for your responses. Somewhere in the black hole of my loading area I seem to remember a Lyman mould that casts a 200 gr bullet. When next I cast, I’ll try to find it and run off a few. That 2 gr Bullseye load sounds like a good starting point.

 

[Outpost75]

My Terrier is not an I-frame, but a J-frame Model 32-1 with 1-7/8" barrel and B-C gap pass 0.005 / hold 0.006".

NOE .362-204RN 2.1 grs of Bullseye 610 fps. WW2 WRA 200-LRN 624 fps.
FN84 .380 Mk2z 178 FMJ 577 fps.
Fiocchi 146 LRN 706 fps.
Accurate 36-151H 2.5 Bullseye 628 fps

 

[Bastogne71]

Froggie,
Ken Waters in Handloader Pet Loads May 1979 has the duplicate of the British 380 Mk I as 2.0 grains of Bullseye under a 200 grain lead round nose loaded to 1.19” OAL. He reports that this load yields 610 fps from a 4” barrel Ruger. He warns that this load should never be used in a top brake revolver but is good to go in a solid frame such as your S&W Terrier. He lists 2.5 grains as a maximum load but notes it with “marginal accuracy”.

 

[Forrest r]

My Terrier is not an I-frame, but a J-frame Model 32-1 with 1-7/8" barrel and B-C gap pass 0.005 / hold 0.006".

NOE .362-204RN 2.1 grs of Bullseye 610 fps. WW2 WRA 200-LRN 624 fps.
FN84 .380 Mk2z 178 FMJ 577 fps.
Fiocchi 146 LRN 706 fps.
Accurate 36-151H 2.5 Bullseye 628 fps

Take this to the bank!!!!^^^^^

Outpost 75 is the "gold standard" with multiple caliber revolver loads. He's forgotten more than most reloaders know. Myself included!!!

 

[BillinAlamo]

Back when I had one of the Lend-Lease S&W Victory Models, I got markedly better accuracy and performance with a 200-grain RN sized .360 (from the long-defunct Liberty Bullets in Oregon) vs. anything .358. Can't remember what powder, but it would have been Bullseye or Unique.

 

[ken burns]

Green Frog - Lyman did make a 200gr .358 mold - number is 35875. Have one from the 60's.
ksb

 

[HKSmith]

I've loaded over 1000 rounds of .38 S&W with the Lyman 358430 bullet at 200 grains. This is a blunt round nose design that was used in the old Super Police loads from Western and Winchester in both .38 S&W and .38 Special. I used 1.9 grains of HP-38 (W231) in both a 1950 I-frame Terrier and a Victory model with good results. The British 200 grain bullet has a longer tapered nose and as mentioned is available from Matt's.

Assuming you're shooting your Terrier at 50 feet, you will not be able to get POI to equal POA with 200 grain bullets. The trajectory at close in distances is determined almost entirely by bullet weight, with heavier bullets shooting higher. My gun shoots about 4 inches high (a deep 6 o'clock hold) with 200 grain bullets compared to 146 grain bullets at 50 feet. If you go out far enough, the bullet will drop to POA, but it's beyond the usual range for this type of revolver.

 

[Outpost75]

The NEI #169A bullet 2.0 grains of Bullseye pretty well duplicates the British service load, 200 grain bullet at 650 fps. I have shot it in British Service revolvers and Colt's Police Positives. I have not shot it any I-frame or any top-breaks other than the Enfield. Matt's bullets is the place to go if you don't roll your own.

650 fps is correct for a 5 inch barrel gun with typical wartime B-C gap of 0.008". My 1924 Colt Police Positive produces likewise.

You can match this in a 1-7/8" barrel Terrier assembled at min. B-C gap of pass 0.003 / hold 0.004. Mean Assembly Tolerance is pass 0.005 / hold 0.006" - which my 32-1 is.

 

[Green Frog]

Thanks to all of you. As you may imagine, my Terrier is not intended for target use. As long as the load gives minute of bad guy accuracy at bad breath range, that’s all I ask of it! I believe the heavy bullet mould I have is the old 358430, and although I still have a small amount of Bullseye left, I’ve been moving over to HP38, so HKSmith’s suggestion should prove useful. Thanks again to everyone!