duPont #5

[DWalt]

For about five months I have had a full canister (8 oz) of duPont #5 on my living room shelf. Tonight I decided to put it to use, since it is now at least 78 years old. It looks OK and seems to burn cleanly also. I loaded up 76 rounds of .38 S&W with it (all the fired cases I have) and some 145 grain RN lead bullets. I used 3.7 grains which is what the old Phil Sharpe handloading book recommended. #5 seems to be much like Unique, possibly a little bit faster. About 15 years ago I came into two full canisters of #5, but I used those up for loading .45 ACP. It worked fine.

Does anyone know what current powder is fairly close to #5? Aside from Sharpe's book, I have no reloading manuals which are old enough to list any recipes using it.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

It's a long shot but you might want to contact Hodgdon and see if the will suggest a modern replacement for #5. They might even have some old data they would be willing to send you.

Good luck...

 

[2152hq]

If you can find an Ideal Reloading Handbook somewhat earlier than their #38 (from 1952 I believe),,It might have #5 loading data in it.

#5 powder was discontinued in '47 or '48.

The earliest PDF of an Ideal Reloading Handbook I can find on the net is that #38 manual
It has loads for #6 and some other oldies,,but no #5 powder uses that I saw in a quick look thru.
Lot's of neat old info though.

http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/OM/IdealHandbook38.pdf

 

[DWalt]

#5 ceased production in 1940. As I said earlier, I have no reloading data for it, other than what is in the Sharpe reloading book. #5 was the earliest propellant used by the military for the .45 ACP, and I think that was its main application.

 

[thadheth]

Can't provide any information about a current powder with similar burning rate, but here is the load information from the Ideal Reloading Handbook (#32, copyright 1936) and the 1953 Belding and Mull Handbook. I've only included the page with .38 S&W, so let me know if other calibers might be helpful.

 

[DWalt]

Those images are very helpful. Thanks for posting them. I am sure others might like to have pictures from the old Lyman catalog for other common cartridges. I have quite a few of the old Lyman reloading handbooks but they go back to only around the mid-1950s. Their main value to me is that that they contain reloading data for cartridges that are currently obsolete and I fancy guns in strange old calibers.

 

[Bakebfr480]

I still have and use # 80 powder from the 20's-30's that I use in 44 spl!

 

[Skeet 028]

Oh heck. Use the data you have and use the powder up. Not likely to find any more(in quantities) I am loading some old P-5066(one of the later replacements for your #5). Not likely I'll find a large quantity of it again. And I do have a bunch of HS-5 and Alcan 5 and 8 to use up....About 5 or 6 pounds of each. Those old powders just don't seem to go bad!

 

[DWalt]

I still have and use # 80 powder from the 20's-30's that I use in 44 spl!

I have a full canister of that also. I tried it in .32-20, and it gave fairly inconsistent MVs. I haven't used it in anything larger, might work better in a larger case.

 

[Enigma]

I have a copy of the Ideal #35 Handbook (dated 1948), which has data for #5 powder. I'll scan it and email the data to you on Tuesday if you'll PM me your email address.

 

[BillB]

No. 5 data on can

I found and purchased an old can of DuPont No. 5 Pistol Powder at a gun show a couple of years ago. Unlike the ones I used in the 1960's, this one has loading data on the back. I'll attach a photo that may be useful for those wanting load data.

My association with No. 5 dates to 1964 when the father of my boyhood best friend took us out to a farm range and introduced us to shooting the S&W Heavy Duty (or 38 on a 44 frame, as he called it). He had been a town policeman from the late 1930's to mid 1940's and since he was 4F, served as Police Chief while his friend the Chief served in WWII. He purchased the HD through the Police Department in 1938. Anyway, after shooting and cleaning back home, he showed us a box of components left over from his police career. There were numerous cigar boxes full of cast and lubed 38 wadcutter bullets, thousands of primers, lots of loaded and empty 38 Spl brass, and half a dozen full 8 oz. canisters of DuPont No.5 Pistol Powder. He told us we were welcome to take the revolver out and shoot targets, so long as we cleaned it afterwards and reloaded the shells. He had a little 38 Spl Lee Loader and a plastic tipped hammer for that task. Needless to say, my buddy and I thought we were the most fortunate people around! We shot thousands of rounds in the next few summers and used up all but one can of the No. 5 powder.

Sadly, both my boyhood friend and his father are now departed, but I now have that last can of No. 5 AND the old Heavy Duty. I take it out to the range occasionally, recall those great experiences, and appreciate the responsibility entrusted to a couple of 16 year olds more than 50 years ago. -Bill

 

[Green Frog]

Wow, I thought I was stuck in a time warp since I'm still shooting IMR 4759. I've got nothing on you guys. I wonder whether one of the Accurate brand of powders might get close to where you want to be??

Froggie

 

[DWalt]

Some additional information on use of the old du Pont #5 and SR 80 propellants shown above. Here are several loads I chronographed early this week that some may find interesting:

.357 Magnum, 158 grain lead SWC, 10.0 grains of du Pont SR 80, fired in a Colt 357, 6" barrel
Average MV of 12 rounds, all fired from the same chamber = 1127.6 ft/sec, SD = 66.3 ft/sec
------------------------------
.38 Special, identical to above conditions, except in .38 Special cases
Average MV of 12 rounds, all fired from the same chamber = 1252.6 ft/sec, SD = 28.8 ft/sec

Note on this load. Too warm for use in any .38 Special revolver, but OK for firing in any .357 Magnum revolver.
------------------------------
.38 S&W, 146 grain .361 LRN bullet, 3.9 grains of du Pont #5, fired from a S&W Victory Model BSR, 5" barrel (unmodified chambers).
Average MV of 12 rounds, all fired from the same chamber = 912.2 ft/sec, SD = 15.1 ft/sec

Note on this load. It's too hot to be safely fired in any top break .38 S&W revolver, but I wasn't afraid to fire it in the BSR as it is essentially identical to the earlier M&P revolver.

 

[gwpercle]

Friday I was reading Elmer Keith's book " Sixgun Cartridges and Loads "
I seem to remember his discussion about Dupont #5 , being discontinued and Unique . When I get back to office Monday I will see if there is any useful information for you . I believe he started using Unique in place of #5 but will verify that info,
Gary

 

[Nemo288]

I found and purchased an old can of DuPont No. 5 Pistol Powder at a gun show a couple of years ago.
Unlike the ones I used in the 1960's, this one has loading data on the back.
I'll attach a photo that may be useful for those wanting load data.

That's some interesting info. Thanks!
They are getting "standard" modern performance out those pre-war 44 specials.
With a "246 lead" 6 grains = 751 fps and 7.5 grains = 950 fps.
That's all I would expect out any of my modern loads albeit in a shorter barrel possibly but with much better metal.
It's also very close in ballistics to Universal and Unique.
Goes to show not much has changed with the classic handgun loads from the WW-I era.