RM Vivas
US Veteran
Someone recently came to me with a gun that had some markings that suggested NYPD usage but the provenance was shaky.
Not enough to be an outright "nope", but just enough that it was a VERY longshot 'maybe'.
One of the deciding factors in my opinion that the gun was fake was the quality of the shield stamping (there were other factors as well).
I've mentioned shield stampings in many of my posts and while most folks are aware of what they are, it occurs to me that a very thoroughly detailed post on them might be beneficial.
This is not that post.
That post is further down the road; this post is just a quick-and-dirty to arm people with enough knowledge to tell an NYPD shield stamp from something else. The later more detailed post will get into the finer nuances and reasoning.
Short version: Your revolver is YOUR gun; you bought, it belongs to YOU. Since it belongs to YOU and it's YOUR property, it will not have any NYPD PROPERTY markings. The reason for this is because it's NOT NYPD property, it is YOURS.
However, there was a requirement going back to the dawn of time that you had to have your shield number stamped on your gun (and your other gear and etched on your uniform(with acid!)).
Some observations about the shield stampings:
Shield stampings were not done at or by the factory!!!
They were done by hand using individual number punches. For this reason they will be uneven in terms of alignment, strike depth, etc. If you're reading a shield number and it's evenly stamped and perfectly straight, it wasn't done by a Job gunsmith and is likely fake.
Shield numbers were stamped either on the backstrap or on the butt. For Smiths, the preferred location was on the backstrap to prevent defacement of the s/n. This did not always happen and I have seen Smiths with shield numbers on the backstrap, the butt and in a few instances, both places!
Colts would be stamped in either location.
A Patrolmans shield number would appear as 123456; a Sergeants shield number would appear as S1234. Sometimes a gun will be stamped thusly: X12345 and 67890; in this instance the gun was formerly the property of Patrolman #12345 and later became the property of patrolman 67890. The X indicates the first shield number no longer applies to that gun.
I can not explain what stampings were done above Sgt. (LT, CPT, DEPINSP, INSP, etc.)
I have included a small selection of stamping images. Please note the manner in which the stamp was applied.
Typical Patrolman shield stamp. Better done than most but the 5 and the 4 give evidence the obvious (but well done) handstamping.
An excellent example of a gun that was owned by Patrolman #10433 who was later promoted to Sgt and had to stamp his Sergeant shield number on the gun. The S in front of the number denotes it being for a SGT shield.
Another Patrolman/SGT gun. This one has the Patrolman shield number on the backstrap and the SGT shield on the butt. Note how the SGT shield nearly damages the serial number.
Another typical Patrolman shield stamping.
Colt's typically, BUT NOT ALWAYS, had the shield number stamped on the butt.
This particular Colt had the Patrolmans number stamped on the backstrap instead of the butt.
Post-War M&P with a shield stamp on the backstrap.
The practice of shield stamps on revolvers started to wane by the early 1960's and by the late 1960's, it was no longer being done.
This is a very short piece on shield numbers; I'll have something much more detailed and nuanced and better illustrated in a few eeks when I have a bit more time.
Best,
RM Vivas
Not enough to be an outright "nope", but just enough that it was a VERY longshot 'maybe'.
One of the deciding factors in my opinion that the gun was fake was the quality of the shield stamping (there were other factors as well).
I've mentioned shield stampings in many of my posts and while most folks are aware of what they are, it occurs to me that a very thoroughly detailed post on them might be beneficial.
This is not that post.
That post is further down the road; this post is just a quick-and-dirty to arm people with enough knowledge to tell an NYPD shield stamp from something else. The later more detailed post will get into the finer nuances and reasoning.
Short version: Your revolver is YOUR gun; you bought, it belongs to YOU. Since it belongs to YOU and it's YOUR property, it will not have any NYPD PROPERTY markings. The reason for this is because it's NOT NYPD property, it is YOURS.
However, there was a requirement going back to the dawn of time that you had to have your shield number stamped on your gun (and your other gear and etched on your uniform(with acid!)).
Some observations about the shield stampings:
Shield stampings were not done at or by the factory!!!
They were done by hand using individual number punches. For this reason they will be uneven in terms of alignment, strike depth, etc. If you're reading a shield number and it's evenly stamped and perfectly straight, it wasn't done by a Job gunsmith and is likely fake.
Shield numbers were stamped either on the backstrap or on the butt. For Smiths, the preferred location was on the backstrap to prevent defacement of the s/n. This did not always happen and I have seen Smiths with shield numbers on the backstrap, the butt and in a few instances, both places!
Colts would be stamped in either location.
A Patrolmans shield number would appear as 123456; a Sergeants shield number would appear as S1234. Sometimes a gun will be stamped thusly: X12345 and 67890; in this instance the gun was formerly the property of Patrolman #12345 and later became the property of patrolman 67890. The X indicates the first shield number no longer applies to that gun.
I can not explain what stampings were done above Sgt. (LT, CPT, DEPINSP, INSP, etc.)
I have included a small selection of stamping images. Please note the manner in which the stamp was applied.
Typical Patrolman shield stamp. Better done than most but the 5 and the 4 give evidence the obvious (but well done) handstamping.
An excellent example of a gun that was owned by Patrolman #10433 who was later promoted to Sgt and had to stamp his Sergeant shield number on the gun. The S in front of the number denotes it being for a SGT shield.
Another Patrolman/SGT gun. This one has the Patrolman shield number on the backstrap and the SGT shield on the butt. Note how the SGT shield nearly damages the serial number.
Another typical Patrolman shield stamping.
Colt's typically, BUT NOT ALWAYS, had the shield number stamped on the butt.
This particular Colt had the Patrolmans number stamped on the backstrap instead of the butt.
Post-War M&P with a shield stamp on the backstrap.
The practice of shield stamps on revolvers started to wane by the early 1960's and by the late 1960's, it was no longer being done.
This is a very short piece on shield numbers; I'll have something much more detailed and nuanced and better illustrated in a few eeks when I have a bit more time.
Best,
RM Vivas
