Ejecting straight back

[Iram]

I've got a used S&W 910. At a USPSA practice this evening, somone pointed out that the gun is ejecting the cases almost straight back (over my head).

I'm used to guns ejecting off to the right instead of straight back.

Anyone know if this is a problem, and what would cause it?

I'm guessing it's a week recoil spring. I've probably put around 1k total rounds through this gun, and I have no idea what the previous owner put through.

 

[Shadow1006]

How is the ejector? Is it worn or broken? Not bumping the case off the extractor correctly...

Extractor & spring...clean and inspect, debris could be allowing the case release too early or could be weak spring and letting go too soon.

 

[Big Cholla]

As pointed out it is a problem that involves the ejector, extractor and recoil spring. I would replace or reshape the extractor, replace the recoil spring with new and carefully renew the bevel on the ejector or replace it with new. I would work in this order; replace the ejector and test fire; replace the recoil spring and test fire; replace the extractor and extractor spring and test fire. Quit the replacements when you achieve the results you want. ........ Big Cholla

 

[Fastbolt]

Are you shooting lightly loaded handloads, or "bargain" 115gr loads?

A heavier-than-standard recoil spring with standard loads can sometimes result in empty cases being thrown in your face ... (it invokes reduced slide velocity and the "dwell time" of the empty case under the extractor hook before being hit by the ejector tip) ... as can an unlocked/unsupported grip (even with metal-framed pistols) ... so I wouldn't be at all surprised for someone to potentially experience such ejection patterns when using a standard recoil spring (on the newer end of its service life) with lightly loaded rounds, or, at least rounds loaded on the less powerful end of the normal pressure range (hence, the question about "bargain" 115gr loads).

The extractors & ejectors on S&W 3rd gen guns don't require modification for ejection patterns. It's not a 1911. Regardless, I wouldn't start fooling around with the gun until you'd examined the potential for ammunition influence.

FWIW, extractors are more often than not fitted parts (and sometimes a different tension extractor spring may be required in a particular gun even with a properly fitted extractor).

Ejectors are drop-in parts, but you have to have some knowledge & experience in partial frame disassembly/reassembly. Newer production ejectors have longer tips for faster ejection (and an angle change to eliminate the potential for a stress riser compared to earlier ejectors).

I've had empty 9mm cases eject more rearward than sideways, especially using lighter bullet weight and standard pressure loads, anyway.

 

[Iram]

I'm shooting 9mm Blazer 115gr. I haven't had problems with it in the past, but I wouldn't swear by the either.

I recently duracoated the gun. Could the duracoat around the extractor cause this problem?

To remove the extractor, do I just need to tap out the small pin? If so, does the pin go up or down?

 

[Fastbolt]

The extractor pin is removed from the bottom and then reinstalled from the bottom, but it can be a bit difficult to remove and reinstall. If removed and reinstalled, the pin bottom must be flush with the bottom of the pin hole afterward or else risk it dragging on the alloy rail. Not good.

Armorers usually have to use a stout starter punch (with a tapered tip) and a brass or ball peen hammer (to break the pin free), and then once the pin can move a 1/16" straight pin punch is used to remove the pin. Unless the extractor is held in its recess when the pin is removed, the shaft of the 1/16" pin punch can be damaged by the force of the spring pushing the extractor outward. A larger Starrett punch is used to reinstall and seat the pin (so it gets good contact with the pin and doesn't bend it or damage the end's edge), and then any burrs raised (around the pin's bottom opening) are dressed with a small offset file (so they don't dig into the alloy frame during cycling). The inside of the pin hole has a slight taper, and armorers used to be given a tapered needle reamer to use if any burrs inside had to be lightly dressed (in the older guns, at least). Probably a task best left so someone who has done such work on guns.

Was it removed when the coating was done, or was it and its spring left in place? A gunked up and maybe sticky extractor and/or extractor spring could potentially cause issues. I've never duracoated a slide, let alone one with some parts left in it.

If the extractor was carefully masked off for the application, on the side and on the bottom (under the slide) so the coating couldn't get inside the recess, I'd be more inclined to suspect a batch of lighter loaded, lightweight 9mm rounds.

Dunno.

A gunsmith familiar with S&W pistols ought to be able to check it out for you.

 

[Iram]

It was coated with the extracter in place and masked off, but I'm sure at lease some overspray got to the extractor.

I don't think there are any gunsmiths familiar with S&W pistols (other than M&P's) within 100 miles of me. Sounds like I need to buy specialized punches.

 

[Fastbolt]

If changing ammo changes the symptom you're seeing, it might save you the trouble of trying to remove the extractor.

Armorers are told that the extractors should only be removed for repair use, implying they aren't something to be removed & reinstalled with any frequency.

The use of the starter punch to break the pin loose (from the top) requires a thick-tipped (tapered) punch, but it shouldn't be driven down into the hole (to avoid wallowing out the hole). That's why the 1/16" pin punch with a long & straight shank is used to do most of the moving once the pin is freed within the hole.

The pins are originally installed using a heavy press, and I've had it require significant whacking with a 4oz ball peen hammer in order to break a pin loose and start it moving.

It's often easiest to keep the orientation of the pin in mind (top/bottom) when reinstalling the pin, too, so it can be reinstalled in the same orientation.

I've seen a slide which had been ruined because someone had tried to hammer a pin out of the slide, bottom-to-top (wrong direction), apparently using the wrong tools in a ham-handed manner. The top half of the slide's pin hole (above the extractor) had been wallowed out so badly that it would no longer hold the pin stable, and the bottom was chewed up REALLY badly.

FWIW, armorers are reminded that ruining the pin hole ruins the slide. There are NOT any "over-size" extractor pins available for repair, nor are roll/coil pins used. The hole in the extractor is sized to work properly with the existing solid pins.

When an extractor is "sticky" toward the front (or has a too-heavy extractor spring) it usually results in feeding problems ... and when it's "sticky" toward the rear (or has a too-light spring tension) it usually results in failures-to-extract.

Here's a couple of 9mm ejectors. The bottom one is the original 3rd gen part, with a short tip and a sharp-cornered angle under the back of the tip where it blends with the body. The top ejector is a revision, with a longer tip for faster ejection (especially with more powerful loads) and a curved angle to reduce the potential for a stress riser at on the bottom of the tip toward the rear.

 

[Cyrano]

If my gun was ejecting reliably and without difficulty, even if the cases were coming back over my head, and if I were faced with the task as described by fastbolt, you can bet I'd leave well enough alone and not try to change the angle of ejection.

 

[SMSgt]

Ditto. Unless hot empties were going down my collar, I wouldn't give it a second thought where they went.

 

[UCLALAW]

Fastbolt, I'm a little confused...

I've seen a slide which had been ruined because someone had tried to hammer a pin out of the slide, bottom-to-top (wrong direction)

The use of the starter punch to break the pin loose (from the top) requires a thick-tipped (tapered) punch

The extractor pin is removed from the bottom and then reinstalled from the bottom...

You mean removed from the top, and reinstalled from the bottom, right?

The reason I'm asking is I am replacing an extractor spring on a TSW model and wasn't sure from which side, top or bottom, the extractor pin is removed and installed. The info I have says top to bottom like a M39 but since I've never removed a 3rd gen extractor I'm not certain. I started another thread and was directed here.
I know the smithing info you post is top notch, but could you clarify which side of the slide (i.e. driven out through the top or out through the bottom) the pin is removed on a 3913TSW?
Thanks.

 

[Fastbolt]

When the slide is positioned with the "top" of the slide being where the sights are located ... and the bottom of the slide as that which has the slide rails ...

The extractor pin comes out the bottom of the slide's pin hole. That requires it being pushed out the bottom by using a punch to push it downward from the top.

It's reinstalled from the bottom. (This is accomplished with the slide being positioned upside down, though.)

The pin is NOT driven out the top of the slide, nor is it installed from the top.

 

[UCLALAW]

Thanks for the quick reply.
I tapped it pretty good with a short shank starter punch and a 8oz hammer but it didn't even budge. I could try a 16oz hammer but any more and it could mushroom the pin, bad news.
Looks I'll be sending it to S&W to be pressed out.

Sorry for the slight hijack, my Model 39-2 sometimes ejects straight back but not enough to worry about. Cleaning and re-lubing seems to help.

 

[Fastbolt]

Yeah, I've had to dress starter punches with a file because the tips were badly peened from the effort it required to break the pins loose. Every once in a while one will come loose easily, and it catches me by surprise.