Engraved Victory Model, if not what please?

[gr8smiles]

I have come into the possession of what I think is a Victory model that I am assuming was re-blued and engraved at some point. The ivory stocks are an obvious addition as well. I can only find two numbers….on the barrel and on the cylinder. There is no number one the butt and it looks like maybe a hole was plugged.

The front sight also looks different than what I would expect on a Victory model as well.

Numbers on the barrel and cylinder are V 488448. There is a P at the very end of the number on the barrel.

Any info and value would be appreciated as I will probably list it here on the forum.

My taste in engraved guns is more for the factory variation as you will see in a later posting.

Thanks

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Well the serials are definitely Victory. We need to see the gun to tell you if it has any value. If there is truly no serial on the butt, you will hear a lot of "it's not legal".

 

[gr8smiles]

Pics up now…it’s easier to add pics from the TapTalk app. You were too fast.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

It is nicely modified and engraved. I don't recognize the engraving style but there are several members here with more expertise that may chime in. It is unfortunate there is no serial number on the butt frame. It makes the gun problematic to own or sell.

 

[Tijeras_Slim]

The barrel rib is an interesting addition.

 

[dobegrant]

Neat looking old gun none the less

 

[THE PILGRIM]

It kind of looks like one that a Buddy of mine had engraved over in Germany in the early 50s.

 

[22hipower]

We've seen a number of Victory revolvers engraved post WWII in Germany posted here. The engraving on this one seems a little more basic than some and they're often marked by the engraver or the lead engraver of the shop that did the work. Odd that there is no engraving on the barrel or cylinder. The removal of the SN on the butt with some engraving where the SN was is not unusual nor is the rib on the barrel and the modified front sight. That lack of an SN on the butt is technically an issue with the ATF as Wiregrassguy noted although those folks hopefully have more serious things to worry about.

Value, probably not all that much. Maybe $750 - $1000 +/- as the ivory grips are a nice touch.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[Wiregrassguy]

the ivory grips are a nice touch.

Thanks, Jeff! You reminded me.


Hey, Rick, could you post some close-ups of those ivory grips. They may be worth more than the gun.

 

[gr8smiles]

Here you go…they are a touch small for the gun…but they might find a new home on a nickel pre-war outdoorsman. Thanks for all the info…

 

[RKmesa]

Congrats! The engraved Victory appears to be one that was engraved in Germany shortly after the war. The barrel rib was a common addition to these guns. In addition, many of the engraved Victory revolvers I have seen have had the SN on the grip frame removed and the butt swivel hole filled for one more "clean" engraving surface.

The modifications on that gun predate the Gun Control act of 1968, which I believe requires SNs on all guns. I do not have any experience dealing with the ATF on these issues, but I have got to believe that since the gun still has SNs in at least three other places (barrel flat, rear face of cylinder and inside of yoke arm) that you should be able to get a rational agent to allow for a stamping of the SN on the side of the frame under the grip, which is exactly what S&W did when the SN was destroyed on the bottom of the grip frame. Also, per the ATF website...

Looks pretty clear to me... But then again, I have no experience dealing with the ATF.

Good luck,

Looks like a fun gun.

 

[22hipower]

The serial number removal issue comes up occasionally, usually with 1917s but with Victorys and others too. While an SN wasn't required until after these were built the law about removal of SNs applied/applies to any gun whenever made if it originally had an SN. It is possible to ask the ATF to allow the SN to be stamped on the frame and that has been approved in the past although I gather from other recent posts that has been less and less likely to be the case. The challenge, I suppose, is finding that "rational ATF agent" that Richard mentions. Possibly the new administration will be more inclined to be reasonable about such matters.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

"Numbers on the barrel and cylinder are V 488448."

That is the Serial Number so I do not see a problem. I have seen P-35 pistols having their Serial Number moved because its on the grip and Gunsmiths would stipple or checker the grip and that is where the original Serial Number was.

Victory Models were very inexpensive as surplus and that was one revolver that Apprentice Engravers learned the Trade on.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

The front sight also looks different than what I would expect on a Victory model as well.

Numbers on the barrel and cylinder are V 488448. There is a P at the very end of the number on the barrel.

Any info and value would be appreciated as I will probably list it here on the forum.

I like it.

But the Front Sight was filed down and the side plates screws were buggered up. Those are signs that the timing or the trigger may be a problem too because bubba 'thinks' he knows what he is doing.

 

[RM Vivas]

It kind of looks like one that a Buddy of mine had engraved over in Germany in the early 50s.

I, too, have a feeling that this is a immediate post-war "two cartons of Luckys for the job" engraving. I can't articulate why I feel that way, I just do.

Maybe its the style. One thing worth noting is that Europeans view serial numbers differently than Americans. If it was German engraved they might have felt fine about obliterating the butt s/n because it still retained one under the barrel and they view the barrel as a serial Numbered item.

I'd have bought it for the grips.

Best,
RM Vivas

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Also, what are the times and places where Folks have Victory Models Engraved?

 

[22hipower]

Also, what are the times and places where Folks have Victory Models Engraved?

I'm not certain what you're asking but it seems quite a few were engraved in Germany in the years immediately after WWII. Plenty of those Victory revolvers floating around Germany then, in fact the German police after the war had many of them. GIs could pick them up inexpensively and German craftsmen were eager to engrave and do whatever a GI might want done. Some of these are very nicely engraved, especially those with oak leaf motifs.

One of the names we see often on engraved Victory's is Kurt Jaeger whose shop was in the Frankfurt area. His name on the gun doesn't guarantee that he did the engraving as a number of other engravers worked with him and used his name on the engraving. I read somewhere, don't remember where now, that Jaeger had a shop either in or closely associated with the Frankfurt Rod & Gun Club. I suspect most of these were done in the 1950s.

Jeff
SWCA #1457