Expectation of Accuracy

[OldDominion5]

First-time poster here, long-time reader.

I've seen a number of posts on the accuracy issues, but no consensus on what kind of accuracy one should be able to expect out of a sand-bag rested S&W M&P-15T, which is the rifle I have.

What I'm getting is about 4MOA with the Federal bulk, and 3MOA with Winchester Match (Black Box). To me, that seems pretty inaccurate, but is it the norm for that rifle, or do I have some issue going on that hopefully can be corrected?

I have a .17hmr rifle that I'm consistently getting 1/2 MOA (once it's warmed up), so while I'm not claiming my technique is perfect, I do know that with a different rifle, I can do a lot better.

What I'm trying to figure out is if that 3-4MOA is just the norm for the 15T, and if not, what is the norm that I should be looking to achieve with bulk or match ammo?

 

[BE Mike]

I think the rifle has a 1:8 twist rate. If I'm correct, it should shoot heavier 75-77 grain bullets accurately with the right load of Alliant Reloder 15, Varget, etc.

 

[dullh]

With open (iron) sights:
If I can keep them all in an area the size of a paper plate at 100 and 200 yards I'm plenty happy.

With a scope:
Bulk XM193 gives me individual holes at 100yd, but they all stay in an area about half the size of the paper plate - bulk ammo is for fun, not shooting tiny groups.

I have two 11.5" AR's and an 8.1" upper that will make a small jagged hole at 100yd from a rest with a scope. This happens with quality ammo. In my case, quality ammo is 62gr Hornady JSP and 64gr Speer Gold Dot. You don't have to go with the heaviest bullets to print an impressive target, but I have tried Federal GM 77gr SMK and it's just as good.

Remember - if you want match grade accuracy, buy a match grade barrel. From a stock AR barrel accuracy should be "mission capable good" but don't expect to break aspirin tablets with boring regularity - at any distance.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

3-4moa is in the ballpark. My guess is the majority here don't shoot any better.

Skills, shooting rest, ammo... all have an influence. All at top form, 2MOA isn't out of the question for a typical AR.

It's an offhand battle rifle.

 

[Hoss0432]

I love when people what bolt action rifle performance out of and run of the mill ar15.


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[Arik]

I expect battle accuracy. So somewhere between 2 - 4 moa with iron sights. Truth be told I don't try to go for 1 or sub moa.

Try match ammo and heavier weight

 

[dullh]

In any case, the rifle is ALWAYS capable of more accuracy than I am.

 

[OldDominion5]

I love when people what bolt action rifle performance out of and run of the mill ar15.

Did someone here indicate that?

I certainly didn't. I wanted to know what sort of accuracy to expect from a stock 15T at 100 yards, so that I would know if I was hitting an effective wall, or, if there might be something I could to do improve my performance (which would be an entirely different question and thread).

I'm well aware that the ammunition can make a huge difference in performance, which is why I specified what I was getting with Federal Bulk vs Winchester Match.

 

[OldDominion5]

Thanks guys, for the info. It'll keep me from expecting more than I should out of it.

 

[MrG5122]

I have rifles with 1:7, 1:8, and 1:9 twists. As far as bulk/military ammo goes, they all seem to do better with 855(62gr) than with 193(55gr). I did have one 1:8 that just loved the American Eagle 50gr pills though. They're all different.

 

[old&slow]

A friend of my son-in-law went out and purchased a expensive LMT AR 15,,, mounted an expensive Vortex Razor scope on it..
Then purchased some dollar two ninety five el-cheapo 55 gr ammo for it.. Then was really upset because of the crappy groups and figured the firearm Should shoot better than that..

I told my son-in-law to offer him a thousand just to take the piece of junk off his hands..

Or if he was a good guy he could tell him to buy some good ammo..

ps: my Bushmaster AR Predator 1:8 twist shoots pretty good groups with handloaded 69 gr match bullets.

 

[touchoneoff]

I love when people what bolt action rifle performance out of and run of the mill ar15.


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Not gonna happen...unless your really lucky. I had two AR's, one standard barrel and one heavy, and the best I could do with irons and off a rest was about 1.75 MOA with the HBAR, and 2 MOA with the standard barreled AR-15.

Maybe with a scoped version I could have tightened those groups up just a tad, but probably not still as good as my Model 700 SS in .30-06. Not even on my best shooting day.

 

[MichiganScott]

I have a Bushmaster DCM model that is a sub-inch gun off the bench with 52gr MK handloads and irons. FWIW, the barrel is 1:9. My box stock RRA 6.8 SPC will shoot 1.25" off the bench anyday. My box stock M&P15A will do 1.25" off the bench with the above mentioned 52gr MK handloads. Federal XM193 in the same rifle is 2 inches at best.

Garbage in, garbage out. It's as simple as matching the load to the rifle. The OP should be able to do better off the bench with a scope.

If you want sub MOA accuracy, have a good smith screw a Krieger barrel on your run of the mill AR upper in a free floating handguard, drop a good trigger in your lower, and have at it. Quick, easy, but pricey.

 

[jonrigs]

Battle rifle. As I say to my wife all the time - "Target is dead". That being said, I'm glad the original poster finally specified distance - not just random MOA. (1.047 in per MOA @ 100 yards...) I'm certainly no male version of Annie Oakley, but at 100 yards sighting in both Red Dot and BUIS (don't ask why I took them off and then moved them around...!) after first 6 or so rounds... Group of 1.5 x 1.75" roughly. On quick fire (not aimed/stabilized/sandbagged)... Expectation is all rounds in center mass...