Experiences with S&W stainless steel .45's

[toocool]

This thread does my heart good. I'm glad to see the 45 Smith's highly lauded as they should be. I've said it on this forum no less than twice before and so say I again that the 4506 I have has been the best 45 by any manufacturer I've ever had-bar none. No other pistol I've owned in this caliber(or any other) has been as reliable as the 4506. Now going on it's 21st birthday since I bought it, I relish it more than i did when I first bought it in Spring 1990. If I could find another like it that was in the condition mine is, I'd scarf it up in a heart beat.

This looks just like my first 4506, bought when I worked for the Great Lakes, IL police department back in the '80s. We carried Ruger .38s with 200-grain military ball ammo on duty, but off duty it was our choice, and I chose the 4506. Carried well and shot better than I did. When I left law enforcement in '91 I sold it to another officer, who carried it on his part-time job for years. Now my only 3rd gen is a 4586 that I just picked up from another forum member. They are some of the best .45s out there.

 

[Tim Nagel]

Great info would love to hear more on the 4506's in use with LAPD and from 1/74SIS!!

 

[X-RingDistroyer]

I have obtained a 4586 that I believe was a police trade in. I haven't had a chance to take it to the range and was wondering if anyone has experience with this gun. Any issues out there on this one? I started off with a 5946 and had to go to Glock years later. This is the first thread I've read cover to cover in a long time. Thanks.

 

[sneather]

I have had my 4506 since NIB over twenty-years ago. In all that time, it has devoured everything (even my shoddy hand-loads) with no memorable history of problems. It's cycled literally tens of thousands of rounds, and I have NEVER replaced a single thing. Not even the recoil spring has tired. Just amazing.

The ONLY complaint I have with my pistol is that there is a glaring manufacturing defect with the front of the slide. In the recessed front, ahead of the dust cover (not sure the proper term, to be honest) one side has noticeably deeper machining marks then the other side. I'll have to post a picture when I get the chance. It has no affect on performance, but someone at S&W quality should be ashamed of themselves for their lack of attention back in the day...

 

[SemperFuzz]

My 4506 i bought new in 1990, sent it to Robar for NP3 carried it for 10 years or so then went the plastic route and recently just switched back to my 4506. After a complete re-spring job, a new trigger since original had some hairline cracks, and 5 new mags, XS Big Dot sights. planning on carrying until i retire.

Stainless has held up very well especially with the Robar NP3 finish.

Just added a CS-45 that just arrived from Birdsongs with the Green-T Finish.

 

[Realzebub45]

My 4506 i bought new in 1990, sent it to Robar for NP3 carried it for 10 years or so then went the plastic route and recently just switched back to my 4506. After a complete re-spring job, a new trigger since original had some hairline cracks, and 5 new mags, XS Big Dot sights. planning on carrying until i retire.

Stainless has held up very well especially with the Robar NP3 finish.

Just added a CS-45 that just arrived from Birdsongs with the Green-T Finish.

Would you recommend the NP3 finish? I was curious how that works/looks applied over the bead blasted original finishes.

Do they smooth out the finish or does it end up looking pretty much like the original with a different tone?

I am contemplating the Factory refinish as well, but was curious about how the 3rd gen Smith takes the finish.

Thanks for the pics and any input.

 

[KPSqured]

I have had my 4506 since NIB over twenty-years ago. In all that time, it has devoured everything (even my shoddy hand-loads) with no memorable history of problems. It's cycled literally tens of thousands of rounds, and I have NEVER replaced a single thing. Not even the recoil spring has tired. Just amazing.

The ONLY complaint I have with my pistol is that there is a glaring manufacturing defect with the front of the slide. In the recessed front, ahead of the dust cover (not sure the proper term, to be honest) one side has noticeably deeper machining marks then the other side. I'll have to post a picture when I get the chance. It has no affect on performance, but someone at S&W quality should be ashamed of themselves for their lack of attention back in the day...

Please post those pics. My 4506 has some machining issues, mainly in the frame, where the dustcover meets with where the recoil spring guide goes into, right next to where the slide contacts the frame. That area where they have that little recess, the left side looks to spec, the right side looks like someone slipped!

So different than my much newer 5906. Difference between CNC and non-CNC?? I'll see if I can get some pics of the area in my pistol.

Note though that I'm not complaining...just wondering if you're guns issue is the same as mine.

 

[Model39]

My Custom Model 645

My first year production Model 645 I had customized by Final Option Enterprises. Black stainless finish, reshaped frame, trigger guard, hammer, single side safety, with 3 dot Novak sights added, and a 3rd generation Model 4516 slide fitted to it as a concealed carry option.

 

[sneather]

Please post those pics. My 4506 has some machining issues, mainly in the frame, where the dustcover meets with where the recoil spring guide goes into, right next to where the slide contacts the frame. That area where they have that little recess, the left side looks to spec, the right side looks like someone slipped!

So different than my much newer 5906. Difference between CNC and non-CNC?? I'll see if I can get some pics of the area in my pistol.

Note though that I'm not complaining...just wondering if you're guns issue is the same as mine.

I'll snap some pictures just as soon as possible. I've been meaning to show the hand-refinish on the flats, anyway. That will tell the whole story about the wonky machining on mine.

 

[Flat Dog]

Since purchasing my barely used 4566, I have run no less than 1000 rounds through the firearm at the range (ouch, that's getting pricey!) with no problems whatsoever-even with sloppy cleaning methods. (no full takedown when cleaning)

Two of my other guns are in the shop after similar high volume shooting-the stainless 4566 'energizer bunnied' both of them.

 

[OK Hog Shooter]

First and foremost let me thank all the forum members that have contributed to this thread, especially 1/74SIS. This may be a bit of a rabbit trail for this particular thread, but here goes. I have been a dedicated .40 cal shooter for over ten years and have been able to restrain myself regarding the .45s. Yeah I know, what was I thinking. After reading and re-reading this thread twice and having a certain fondness for stainless Smith autos, I cannot resist the urge any longer. Given the 4506 appears to be near full size with a 5" barrel and the 4566 is closer to my 4006 in barrel length, I'm thinking I'd like to acquire one of each. Now the question. Of the various iterations of both of these models, are there any particualar dash models to be avoided, or will any no dash, -1, -3, etc. serve me well. Use will be target, farm carry, and home protection. Thanks for your keen insights and willingness to share your experiences.

 

[Leiden]

I wish I had some super experience to highlight the S&W 3rd Generation 45XX series, but I really don't. I work for an agency you probably read about on occasion in even the smallest local newspapers across the county, but that doesn't really add anything to the S&W experience as we authorized many different pistols.

I've carried a 4506-1, 4516-1 and 4563TSW for a while...a while in the rain, in the mud, in the blowing sand, inside a trash dumpster, on high risk stops, in an entry stack, and shoved down the back of my jeans while scared to death. In all cases I've had complete confidence in any of them and have learned what they do really well and what not so well (in my experience at least).

4506-1

This my uniform and anything other than concealed plain clothes carry pistol. I've learned it'll feed anything I can shove in the magazine and will hand cycle empty cases with equal enthusiasm as live rounds/dummy rounds. The 4506-1 will easily keep pace with the custom Kimber 1911s we use for the tactical team, but in my opinion is much more reliable. It is very easy to maintain and reliable to a fault. It's heft is comforting when it's out and stands out at night when pointed at a person intent on doing you harm. I prefer the traditional double action to single action only and like the simplicity of drawing and firing, without having to push a button or flip a switch. As a side note, the 4506s have been around so long and have made such an impression that they tend to command respect and have a following in their own right quite separate from the person carrying it. To illustrate this I've seen on multiple occasions where the deputy/officer carrying the 4506 gets the immediate attention of the average citizen or older officer as they recognized it as being different than the common plastic pistols found on LE use.

4516-1
I've carried his pistol for years in plain clothes use and everything I just said about the 4506-1 pertains to it as well. It's basically a Colt Officer's Model that works all the time and doesn't require a switch being flipped to turn it on. I have found in the -1 model the 19# Wolff springs work best when the factory springs wear out. I've added a spurred hammer to it to make it a "mini-4506" and I love the fact that it's the same manual of arms and I don't have to re-think what I'm doing.

4563TSW
I recently switched to this pistol for concealed carry, non-uniform use and it has all the same attributes as the 4506-1 and 4516-1, but with a significant weight reduction. I've found the extra recoil isn't hard to overcome, but the pistol doesn't look as "traditionally pure" as the 4506-1 and 4516-1 if that makes sense. While I love it and use it daily, I could live without the big billboard "45 Tactical" on the side.

I don't have any cool stories to share specifically related to the 45XX series, but I can say I've shot them muddy, sweaty, bloody, inside a building, outside, with a gas mask on and off, rested and exhausted, and without exception each and every one hasn't failed to put the round where the front sight goes, and do it repeatidly until the magazine was empty or replaced with a fresh one.

The 45XX series does get attention from others in uniform...some wonder why the "boat anchor" is still around and go back to playing with their Kimbers and plastic guns, and some look at it and silently knod figuring you carry it for a reason (cause you will stand out) and respectfully want to find out what you know that they don't.

All in all, having complete freedom to carry something else, I won't.

If I could have one wish though, I'd like to have a 4506-1 with a CHP-style integral rail...that would be nice to have.

If you get a chance to buy one, don't hesitate. If you can get a 4516-2 insead of a -1 I'd do that as recoil springs are much easier to find.

If you're wondering what the 45XX series doesn't do well that would be answered by it's weight. The 4506-1 and 4516-1 aren't light pistol. They aren't too big to carry concealed, but of you're the kind of guy that wears shorts and a small belt there are better choices (the 4563TSW). I'm 6'02 and 220 pounds and feel like I can easily carry any of them easily and find a proper belt and holster take away any excuses.

I have never regretted buying a S&W 45XX and when younger LE look at it and roll their eyes, I don't hold it against them when they eventually ask to borrow it and then ask "Does Safariland make a duty holster?"

Get one if you can, be glad if you already have one, and if you're required to carry plastic on-duty, well, there are those of us out there who understand.

One last thing....holsters.

If I could recommend anything to guys who are starting out with the 45XX series for LE use, it would be to realize SIG P228/P229 holsters fit the 4516-1, P226 holsters fit the 4566s and even the 4506s, but the 4506s stick out a quarter inch. Safariland makes duty holsters for all of them and the 4563TSW with a X200 on it fits the Safariland P226 with X200 duty holster. I like the Aker leather holsters as they do a great job for the money. An any given day I carry a 45XX with two spare 8 rd magazines, a S&W 649 and a 5 rd .38 reload in a Safariland Comp1 speedloader (carried in a Safariland Split-Six pouch between my primary gun and badge).

In short, when you think of the 45XX series and are trying to find a holster, look at the SIG holsters as they'll usually fit. If you want a kydex holster for a 45XX I don't think the SIG versions will fit. If you're interested in a 45XX, you're probably not a kydex sort of guy anyways.

By the way, A. E. Nelson leather in Oregon makes outstanding duty gear for the 45XX series. I carry 5 spare magazines plus the one in the pistol and their quad mag pouch carries the magazines easily. S&W 45XX series and black basketweave go hand in hand...but, yes, Safariland makes holsters and so does Bianchi in their Accumold variety.

 

[squidsix]

Leiden, hats off to you.
I do not carry one on duty (I'm active duty Navy and carry an M-9 every day) BUT I would not hesitate for a split second if I were able to switch to the 4566 I bought a few years back. The previous owner was Tennessee State Patrol (trade in I bought from Summit) and it is a very smooth and reliable weapon, and although somewhat heavy, it's not nearly unmanageable. I carried a government 1911 for years and never cared about the weight, and this 4566 weighs less.
It's wonderfully accurate, and with a spring change will handle 45 Super loads. It's a fantastic pistol, and I would choose literally nothing else as my duty piece. (and unlike many of my peers, I'm actually a supporter of the M-9 and like it very much)

 

[Leiden]

If I could only have one S&W for everything from uniform to UC work it'd be a 4566. In my prayers every night I thank God for the freedom my agency has and ask for a pay raise. If it came to giving up my freedom and getting a raise I'd pass...and that's why I'm here I guess.

Thank you for your service and be confident in your M9. I had an occasion to use one once and don't have any complaints.

 

[squidsix]

I've had to use one more than once, and I agree, it's a fine pistol. And it's such total nonsense that it won't run in the sand. What it's won't do is function in the all-too-prevalent environment in the military called NEGLECT.
The 4563 you have has the ugly *** billboard, but a green scrubby and that vanishes. Seriously, it's laser etching, not a rollmark, and it comes right off. My 5903TSW had the same thing and it is a thing of the past.

 

[Leiden]

I will have to go buy a green scrubby and take it off.

While many would disagree with me, I respectfully submit a properly lubricated M9 is superior to the S&W 45XX series in reliability. What the S&W 45XX series will do, however, is run well when not properly lubricated.

I find the new law enforcement officers with my agency universally choose the Glock or 1911....an overwhelming amount choose the Glock. For $389 with three magazines they are hard to beat, and they seem to survive the neglect our non-gun, non-hunting, non-prior service, do-the-minimum-acceptable, "this is only a job," type officer is seemingly capable of producing.

 

[squidsix]

" non-gun, non-hunting, non-prior service, do-the-minimum-acceptable, "this is only a job," type "
^ this.
I get these guys all the time. "I don't like guns" they say.
"Good thing you're not in the ARMED FORCES" I always tell them.

Back to the S&W: Strangely, the Beretta got me started on 3rd gen Smiths. I love 1911s and revolvers, and because of shooting them I just CAN NOT STOP riding the slide stop with my thumb on basically everything out there that isn't a Beretta or a S&W auto. They are just far enough forward to allow me to place my thumb where the safety would be on the 1911 and NOT ride the slide stop. You know how many times I had failure to slidelock on empty mags with a Sig 228? Maybe a thousand.
I love the controls of the Beretta, especially the "G" model with the decocker-only function. My 4566 has this same feature, and I tried to send my 6906 in for conversion to this feature, but Smith tells me they no longer do it.
I still love 1911s, but to get one that runs like my 92G and 4566 and 6906 AND shoots straight, you have to spend a little over a grand. It cost me more than that to get the Colt I have now and more than that for the Smith Custom Pro I 1911 that I recently grabbed. In fact, I'm trading the Custom Pro I for a Smith 4567 with night sights next week. I could not find a 4563 locally, but the search is on.
sorry for the rambling reply. As I get older I get more loquacious.
Best,
Steve

 

[Leiden]

I got started on S&W 3rd gens when I went to a UC/street jump school taught by LEOs/FBI (I think the LEOs were LAPD or ex-LAPD, maybe, but not 100% sure) and they had 4506/4516s. I was amazed they always worked all the time and the idea of putting the safety on and being able to wear it without a holster was fantastic. I didn't realize back then that only good guys wore holsters.

In any case, the 45XXs worked a lot better than my Colt 1911 and was in my mind at least safer to carry.

I also liked the idea of being able to press the mag release and it instantly de-activated the entire pistol...I like that but many don't.

 

[sneather]

Please post those pics. My 4506 has some machining issues, mainly in the frame, where the dustcover meets with where the recoil spring guide goes into, right next to where the slide contacts the frame. That area where they have that little recess, the left side looks to spec, the right side looks like someone slipped!

So different than my much newer 5906. Difference between CNC and non-CNC?? I'll see if I can get some pics of the area in my pistol.

Note though that I'm not complaining...just wondering if you're guns issue is the same as mine.

As promised. Here are the photos showing the irregular machining on my 4506. This weirdness is literally the only bad thing about the gun. Nothing else is asymmetrical, or otherwise poorly machined. The slide to frame relationship is looser than most Hollywood marriages, but it's always been that way and probably one of the reasons the gun just never jams. You could probably wedge a few rocks in there, and it would keep on shooting. Granted, that sort of sloppy tolerance would piss off most of the members over on the 1911 boards...

My 6906 doesn't have any poorly machined parts. HOWEVER, the starboard side safety rubbed on the thick frame, right out of the box. I just filed that little piece down a little, and that solved it. Odd though. I should someday see if other owners had that same problem.

 

[Leiden]

One of my 4506s has the same machining marks as yours. It's never affected function, and I just noticed after seeing your photos. If that is the only fault I can find with the gun I'm OK with it.

As promised. Here are the photos showing the irregular machining on my 4506. This weirdness is literally the only bad thing about the gun. Nothing else is asymmetrical, or otherwise poorly machined. The slide to frame relationship is looser than most Hollywood marriages, but it's always been that way and probably one of the reasons the gun just never jams. You could probably wedge a few rocks in there, and it would keep on shooting. Granted, that sort of sloppy tolerance would piss off most of the members over on the 1911 boards...

My 6906 doesn't have any poorly machined parts. HOWEVER, the starboard side safety rubbed on the thick frame, right out of the box. I just filed that little piece down a little, and that solved it. Odd though. I should someday see if other owners had that same problem.

 

[sneather]

Indeed. It stopped troubling me about twenty-years ago!

 

[meh92]

What a fantastic thread! I carried a 4586 (department-issued) for the first 7 years of my LEO career up here in NE Ohio. Our duty load was the 230gr Ranger SXT. Sadly, our department switched to fantastic plastic in .40S&W. I bought my 4586 for a fair trade-in price and never regretted it.

While the 4586 was definitely a boat-anchor, it was a supremely-reliable and accurate gun. The only issue I ever had was during the academy when we were shooting at an outdoor facility. The temperature was around 10 degrees that morning and we stood around a burn barrel to keep warm. When it was my turn to shoot the slide would not reciprocate properly, which caused several failures to eject. The oil I was using had nearly frozen in the gun. The rangemaster re-lubed it with Tetra-Oil and the problem was immediately solved. I'd hardly blame the gun for that.

If memory serves me correctly (that was 15 years ago) I had used the oil that came in the old Hoppe's cleaning kits. Since then, the only oils I use on carry guns are Tetra or FP10 and the problem never repeated itself.

Great thread... good memories.

 

[Dot_mdb]

Oil or Grease

About 10 years ago I was at the S&W plant for a tour of the factory. We stopped into the Performance Center shop and one of the men there gave a little talk about the semi-autos, including lubrication. He never once mentioned the use of grease and only spoke about the use of oil for lube.

Bill

 

[imjin138]

After reading this post, I went to Shooter's yesterday and ordered the 19LB recoil spring and 5 new 10LB magazine springs. So I will switch out all the springs on the used 4516 I just picked up. I will also clean it up a bit.

I do have a question though, does anyone know where I can get a gold bead front sight for a 3rd gen 45?

 

[dave williams]

Great Thread guys!

I work with meh92 and he clued me in on it.

John Helms, meh92 and I have trained with Larry Mudgett a few times in Pittsburgh PA, great training. Hopefully he'll be out this summer for some more training. Thanks much for the info on the SW .45 in LAPD service, very interesting.

I wrote the following blurbs about our old 4586 and 3rg gen SWs in general on different internet gun forums, look at these dates!:

August 30, 2004, 01:48 PM
"I used to have the 4586 as an issue duty gun. I liked it,
and wish I was still allowed to carry it on duty. It had a
lot of nice features: fully dehorned, beveled mag well, big
fixed Novak night sights, undercut trigger guard, serrated front
strap, nice wide grip tang, choice of backstrap configuration,
reliable 8 shot mags, stainless construction, slim and easy to
carry off duty in a custom pancake, and most importantly it shot big bullets. A much better gun,
IMO, than the plastic minor caliber *** they replaced it with."

October 5, 2000, 11:26 AM
"Hello,
I carry a DAO SW4586 daily, on and off duty. It has really grown on me. It has never malfunctioned.
It has some excellent features(factory dehorned, bevelled mag well, front strap serrations, changeable
grip angles, nice wide grip tang, big fixed tritium sights). If you don't like the mag safety, there are
ways to get around it in a tactical reload situation. I would prefer it in an alloy frame, with light mounting
grooves, and this model is available. In my experience, the .45 acp SWs(4506,4566,4586)are very reliable. Note
that LAPD now gives it's officers the .45 acp option in the form of the 4506(I believe the 4566 and 4516 may be
optional). The LAPD show on Discovery Channel shows that these SWs are being carried by a LOT of cops, by their
choice. Chicago gives cops the option of the 4586. On Tactical Forums Home, there is a guy with mucho leo experience from California, and he states that CHP has had excellent results with the 4006, some examples easily going 50k rounds, and also having excellent results with(gasp!) 180gr subsonic
JHPs(W-W, Rem)."

Since then, some 4006s with CHP have gone over 100K rounds! Pretty durable system, and CHP decided to stay with the 4006 in TSW form instead of changing over to another weapon system. Makes alot of sense to me, why not go with a proven gun that all your Troopers are trained on and have leather gear for?

I went to the academy with several Officers who were issued the 4506 and 4566, great guns, worked great for those Officers in training. My issued 4586 was used, and the mag springs were literally half the length of the guys with the new mags. The department supplied me and my partner with new mags and I never had a bobble after that. I used the 4586 to shoot IDPA successfully and also qualed as "Master" on our duty PPC type qual course. It was a very shootable gun. We had a Beamhit system at work that really got me dialed in on the gun. It was a laser installed in the barrel, and you dry fired at various reactive targets throughout a room. You typically would do some PT, use the Beamhit, etc. Really effective training tool.

I had the chance to chat with a WV State Trooper recently. They actually switched from the 4006 to the 4566, one of the only agencies I am aware of to switch from 40 to 45. One of the reasons was to go away from the double stack to reduce the size of the grip for the smaller Troopers IIRC. As you guys know they are getting new 4566s with melonite treatment to replace their standard 4566s. The M&P was not a popular choice with the Troopers in testing evidently.

Interesting to learn that LAPD is giving Officers the option of the Smith .45s again. I certainly wish we had as liberal of a weapons policy as LAPD, and allowed for Officers to have some choice in their duty guns. Oh well glad to have a paycheck.

I am carrying a Gen4 G22 and a Gen3 G27 as BUG, with 165gr full power Gold Dot, pretty good combo I think.

This thread has really got me jonesing for a SW .45 of some sort.

Dave Williams

 

[meh92]

About 10 years ago I was at the S&W plant for a tour of the factory. We stopped into the Performance Center shop and one of the men there gave a little talk about the semi-autos, including lubrication. He never once mentioned the use of grease and only spoke about the use of oil for lube.

Bill

Not sure if that was aimed at me, but I was using oil... not grease. The oil semi-froze. I still remember that clearly, as well as the reaming I got from the instructor/rangemaster for using whatever oil it was.

Again, good memories!

 

[Dot_mdb]

Not sure if that was aimed at me, but I was using oil... not grease. The oil semi-froze. I still remember that clearly, as well as the reaming I got from the instructor/rangemaster for using whatever oil it was.

Again, good memories!

You are right. It says oil and my brain probably expected it to say grease.

Bill

 

[Kavinsky]

My first year production Model 645 I had customized by Final Option Enterprises. Black stainless finish, reshaped frame, trigger guard, hammer, single side safety, with 3 dot Novak sights added, and a 3rd generation Model 4516 slide fitted to it as a concealed carry option.

Excuse me but how durable has this finish been for you and how close do you think it is to the robar Blackening finishing they do?
Robar Black Oxide, e-Nickel & Chrome Sulfide Finishes

the reason why I'm asking is because I'm planning on getting a 645 and having the finish redone in one way or another and I kinda like the look yours has going for it there.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

4506 is a nice handgun. 1911 has nothing on it. It is so sturdy that you could use it as a club if you run out of ammo. Very little recoil for 45 ACP, even for a newbie.

 

[Tim Nagel]

4506 is a nice handgun. 1911 has nothing on it. It is so sturdy that you could use it as a club if you run out of ammo. Very little recoil for 45 ACP, even for a newbie.

Couldn't agree more! I love 1911's to, but the S&W 4506 is probably one of the most reliable 45 pistols out there! Its a shame S&W doesn't offer it or the 4566 anymore except special LE Orders.