Exploding Colt Revolvers

I have Colt's Agent, and I too read Jan Libourel's article, but I have never
used +P in my Colt. Although Jan was a very good writer, I don't believe
everything I read in a gun magazine. My intuition told me not to use
+P in the old Colt. I believe I could find quotes in articles by most all
of our leading gun magazine writers where they were wrong. It's
kinda like believing everything we read on the internet.
 
Seems like Colt has changed ownership and been involved in bankruptcy proceedings one or more times in the past 40 years, so is the Colt of today even remotely the same corporate entity when the OP's revolver was manufactured.

I never owned a Colt revolver that came with a box or manual ( all were bought used), so I can't attest to what Colt printed about the use of +P, but recall very clearly from the 70s and 80s that it was considered unwise to shoot +P in any alloy revolver. It seems that it hasn't been all that long that S&W blessed the use of higher pressure ammo in their alloy Js.

I recall armorers from my home town PD who had toured the S&W factory saying how S&W applied special heat treating to their magnum-chambered revolvers while Colt didn't. I don't know the validity of that, but the same could probably be applied to the 686 vs GP100 debates of today. I don't think that a box or two of +Ps would blow up a Colt alloy D- frame, but a bad round or two would seriously damage any gun it was fired through. Due to the fact that the Colts are no longer manufactured and values are at least double or more of their original retail value, I would not be inclined to abuse them with hotter loads.

The one thing that the OP might consider doing is having an independent entity test the remains of the gun to see if there were any metallurgy defects. I still doubt Colt of today would be able to do much about it, as they certainly wouldn't be able to furnish a replacement Cobra (unless they've been sitting on a stash of them in the basement).
 
As I remember(which is not as easy as it once was) the 38+P round was introduced in the early to mid 70s, and was intended for medium frame and larger revolvers. I believe that at that time the only Colt D frames that were considered safe enough to shoot +Ps in were the Diamondback, and currently manufactured Police Positives. From the pics posted it appears the event that blew that revolver apart happened at/in the forcing cone, maybe a squib, slightly oversized bullet, stretched frame, incorrect cylinder timing, etc.

model25man
retired gunsmith
 
Bad Colt

To give more explanation. I bought this Colt Cobra new in 1976 and with it I bought a box of +P.38 Specials under the advice of the Gun Store owner. This Colt exploded in my hand before I could finish the box of ammo. I took it back to the dealer who sold it to me and they told me to send it back to the Colt factory.

Then (40) years ago, I did sent it to the Colt factory. Colt examined it by cutting the barrel in half and determined that it was not a squib but 'too excessive amount of pressure'. Colt took no responsibility nor blame for the gun then. They returned the gun to me and I have been saving it ever since.

What sparked my interest, which convinced me my Colt Cobra was at fault, was the article I read a few week ago in Guns & Ammo, dated Feb 1990, reading: "ALL Colt DA .38 Special revolvers were strong enough to handle +P's". So, for a second time, 40 years later, I contacted Colt last week and got a verbal 'sorry we can not help you' response.

I have been shooting handguns and rifles for over 50 years (four years serving on the Army Pistol Expert team after I returned from Vietnam), my experience tells me what a squib is and not to fire another round. I have over 40 Smith and Wesson revolvers all of which are strong, reliable and all are great guns. Smith & Wesson also has a great customer service program.

I was disappointed in Colt for brushing me off so nonchalantly, because this gun did put me in harms way, and Colt acts as if it was nothing to be concerned about.

That is why I opened this forum discussion. Not to get anything other than informing others of how bad Colts' attitude toward something as serous as a gun exploding in someone's (my) hand whether by using heavy loads, or by having poor communications, or just maybe their product was faulty. The fact is, the gun exploded in my hand and Colt just doesn't care!

Bottom line, this Colt exploded in my hand 40 years ago, Colt did nothing, last week I tried to explain to them again the gun was at fault, and Cold did nothing! I'm sorry for all you Colt owners, good luck if you need any warranty work.
 

Attachments

Here's a link to a Colt Owners Manual for the D frame revolvers. Includes the Cobra of course.
The manual is dated 2002 unfortunately but is the only one I can find for the post 72 models.

The wording regarding the use of +P 38Special in the Aluminum frame guns (Cobra and Agent) is the same as earlier print I remember.
Limited use of +P 38Spec is OK in the alloy frame Cobra (and Agent).
The */note states having the alloy gun inspected every 1000rds ,,steel frame guns every 2000 to 3000rds .
(??...Do they mean 1000rds of +P,,or every 1000 rd count of 38special no matter the type?)

http://stevespages.com/pdf/colt_det...ack,_police_positive,_agent,_cobra,_viper.pdf


Another point..could the ammo used in the OP's revolver possibly have been +P+,,,instead of +P.
Could that have made such a significant difference to possibly cause the damage shown?
 
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The arc of trigger guard remnants look like
some metal is missing.

Any chance this revolver was demilled/destroyed
evidence, etc?
 
CW4 Dennis said:
To give more explanation. I bought this Colt Cobra new in 1976 and with it I bought a box of +P.38 Specials under the advice of the Gun Store owner. This Colt exploded in my hand before I could finish the box of ammo. I took it back to the dealer who sold it to me and they told me to send it back to the Colt factory.

Then (40) years ago, I did sent it to the Colt factory. Colt examined it by cutting the barrel in half and determined that it was not a squib but 'too excessive amount of pressure'. Colt took no responsibility nor blame for the gun then. They returned the gun to me and I have been saving it ever since.

What sparked my interest, which convinced me my Colt Cobra was at fault, was the article I read a few week ago in Guns & Ammo, dated Feb 1990, reading: "ALL Colt DA .38 Special revolvers were strong enough to handle +P's". So, for a second time, 40 years later, I contacted Colt last week and got a verbal 'sorry we can not help you' response.

I have been shooting handguns and rifles for over 50 years (four years serving on the Army Pistol Expert team after I returned from Vietnam), my experience tells me what a squib is and not to fire another round. I have over 40 Smith and Wesson revolvers all of which are strong, reliable and all are great guns. Smith & Wesson also has a great customer service program.

I was disappointed in Colt for brushing me off so nonchalantly, because this gun did put me in harms way, and Colt acts as if it was nothing to be concerned about.

That is why I opened this forum discussion. Not to get anything other than informing others of how bad Colts' attitude toward something as serous as a gun exploding in someone's (my) hand whether by using heavy loads, or by having poor communications, or just maybe their product was faulty. The fact is, the gun exploded in my hand and Colt just doesn't care!

Bottom line, this Colt exploded in my hand 40 years ago, Colt did nothing, last week I tried to explain to them again the gun was at fault, and Cold did nothing! k.
Click to expand...


After reading all this I decided to put my 2 cents in. The gun exploded, that is not in doubt. Why is the question and it would affect the outcome.

With that explosion in mind was your hand damaged, did you get sprayed with shrapnel? If you were personally hurt how come there is no mention of a law suit. The result of that would certainly get someone's attention at COLT. If you were not personally hurt you were very lucky.

I have two older Colts, a Dick Special .38 2'' and a Cobra 2'' .38 and I would not put +P or +P+ in either gun. I know about Colt not producing revolvers for years, nor many pistolsmithes that will work on Colts.

I have a few much stouter guns (S&W) that say +P right on the barrel, those I will load hot if necessary. Better yet with the +P+ I would only shoot that in my .357s!
 
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Hi forum;

Not meaning to highjack the thread but Texas Star mentions above that S & W did not advise +P in their airweights.

I cannot find any information about that and would like to know if anybody else out there has seen an advisory to not use +P in an airweight.

Photos attached are of my Model 60 no dash plainly stamped on the barrel .38 S & W Spl, while the other photo is my 637-2 (2002) and that barrel is plainly stamped .38 S & W Spl +P. (year 2002 with IL)

Also I do not recall any advisories in the 637-2 Manual but will check when I get home tonight.

I probably run 100's of +P through the 637 and now I wonder about "frame stretching" per above posts. Any other forum members have any experience (good or bad) with these points? P.S. I do not reload as I have just never had the time.

Thanks in advance for any input and comments.
 
Then (40) years ago, I did sent it to the Colt factory. Colt examined it by cutting the barrel in half and determined that it was not a squib but 'too excessive amount of pressure'. Colt took no responsibility nor blame for the gun then.

Colt did do something.....they examined the gun.

The problem wasn't the gun but that particular ammo you were unfortunate enough to have used....IE a bad batch.

I believe you are barking up the wrong tree even 40 years later.
Do you still have any left ?

Did you ever check and see if they may have had a problem with that lot of ammo ?
 
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I had a problem with a new colt revolver I bought in 1985. I was regularly piercing primers on magnum loads.

I contacted Colt. They were very helpful and told me the gun was not the problem, and I should contact the ammo manufacturer. Sure enough, the ammo I had been using had thin primer cups and I was not to use any more of the ammo. I sent in what I had left, and got new ammo in return.
 
Did you ever contact the ammo manufacturer? It may be too late now, but if you were willing to contact Colt's recently, it's worth a try. They'll likely want to examine the remaining rounds and empty cases.

I think the problem was with the ammo, not the gun. It's hard to believe that a single +p 38 special (properly loaded to industry standard +p pressure) would have such a catastrophic effect, especially without blowing the cylinder apart.
 
Another reason I blame the ammo..........

Over 40 years time we should have heard about Colts going kaboom all over the place if they made guns that ****ty, even for a time. I'm not a Colt guy, but Colts have a good reputation for the quality of their guns, even in bad times. Again, I don't think it was a squib and Colt proved that. The AMMO MANUFACTURER is responsible for DESTROYING YOUR NICE COLT.


I only have one Colt, a .38 S&W Police Positive maybe from the '30s I got handed down.
 
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I agree that it was the ammo and not the gun.
However, I'm not surprised that Colt just blew the guy off. Colt makes some fine guns, but their customer service has pretty much always been less than satisfactory. I really don't think they give a damn about their customers.
While I don't think this particular gun was at fault, past incidents indicate that getting Colt to admit to a mistake is about like trying to push a rope.
 
CW4 Dennis said:
Please read about my experience with a Colt Cobra DA .38 Special that exploded in my hand and the response I received back from Colt Firearm Company!
Click to expand...

Well you lost me at compensation for personal danger. I would back away from you also. Had you asked for a replacement gun you may have got some kind of a response. JMO
 
Random thoughts, some already expressed by others:

Colt of today is not the same corporate entity that was Colt of 1976. Different owners, locations, probably not any of the same people still working there. I can't imagine that any company now would accept liability for a product that their namesake manufactured 40 years ago.

Colt customer service has been very good to me the past 20 years or so. Fast turnaround on parts orders, no backorders of any parts I needed.

I have only made one warranty claim and even though the gun that broke was more than a couple of years old and no longer in the warranty period, Colt fixed it.

I bought a limited production Colt Commander in 1991. Called the "Custom Carry Commander," it was Colt's first Commander with a stainless steel upper on a silver-anodized aluminum frame. The slide rollmarks were unique to that model. 500 made for Accusport Armory of Ohio. I was using it as my duty pistol at work. During a qualification in 1997, a part of the forward portion of the slide broke off, allowing the barrel bushing, recoil spring and plug go flying down range. I had never seen a 1911 slide break like that, and the local authorized Colt warranty station gunsmith, a nationally known 1911 smith, said he hadn't, either.

I sent the gun back to Colt with a letter of explanation. I expected to pay for a new slide. Colt returned my pistol with not just a new slide, but one with the same rollmarks, which meant they either had a spare from the original batch or dug out their old stamps to mark a blank new one for me. I had put tritium sights on it, and the front sight is a crimped-in-place part and generally isn't reusable if removed. Colt even put a brand new tritium front sight on my new slide (they are dated). They then shipped it back to me and didn't charge me anything. Not a cent.

That was 19 years ago, so I don't know how Colt would handle that today, but I don't know of anyone posting a bad recent experience with Colt's customer service.

I bought a lot of my guns at Wolfe's back then, it was a great store, both the Main Street store and the Highland Drive location. They were bought out by Sunset Sports and then Sunset was bought out by Gart Brothers, who got bought out by Sports Authority.

Might be time to let it go now.

Who was the ammunition maker?
 
The barrel of my S&W 642 Airweight purchased in 2005 is stamped

".38 S & W spl.+P"
There may have been an advisory since I bought it, if so I have not seen it. I seldom fire it but I have shot some +P ammo through it.
Steve W.

cmansguns said:
Hi forum;
Not meaning to highjack the thread but Texas Star mentions above that S & W did not advise +P in their airweights.

I cannot find any information about that and would like to know if anybody else out there has seen an advisory to not use +P in an airweight.

Photos attached are of my Model 60 no dash plainly stamped on the barrel .38 S & W Spl, while the other photo is my 637-2 (2002) and that barrel is plainly stamped .38 S & W Spl +P. (year 2002 with IL)

Also I do not recall any advisories in the 637-2 Manual but will check when I get home tonight.

I probably run 100's of +P through the 637 and now I wonder about "frame stretching" per above posts. Any other forum members have any experience (good or bad) with these points? P.S. I do not reload as I have just never had the time.

Thanks in advance for any input and comments.
Click to expand...
 
I fail to understand how that gun could have blown apart like that without the cylinder being blown apart. Separate the frame and even the trigger guard? I would be surprised after looking at the picture that his hand was not blown apart as well. How he still has a trigger finger is beyond my understanding. I am guessing Colt did more than cut the barrel off. More like they cut the gun frame apart also. The whole gun looks like it was disassembled{destroyed} by someone.
It would make a great paper weight conversation piece anyway.
 
TexasRaider said:
Darn you Chevy and that '74 Vega!
Click to expand...

LOL!! I had one of those creatures, a 1971 Vega wagon. Traded it in at a Ford Dealership (because no Chevy, or GM dealer for that matter, would take it in for trade) and never looked back.

Aluminum engine block... no cast iron cylinder liners, GM's bright idea instead was to impregnate the aluminum cylinder walls with silicon (not silicone) to harden them against friction wearing... big fail. Scored cylinder walls, rapid wear... at 12,000 miles I was running a 50/50 mix of Castro GTX 50wt oil and STP to keep it from bellowing black smoke, and using 1qt of oil every 500 miles.

Sorry for the thread drift... but your comment rapidly brought back memories from my misspent youth.
 
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Gunhacker said:
LOL!! I had one of those creatures, a 1971 Vega wagon. Traded it in at a Ford Dealership (because no Chevy, or GM dealer for that matter, would take it in for trade) and never looked back.

Aluminum engine block... no cast iron cylinder liners, GM's bright idea instead was to impregnate the aluminum cylinder walls with silicon (not silicone) to harden them against friction wearing... big fail. Scored cylinder walls, rapid wear... at 12,000 miles I was running a 50/50 mix of Castro GTX 50wt oil and STP to keep it from bellowing black smoke, and using 1qt of oil every 500 miles.

Sorry for the thread drift... but your comment rapidly brought back memories from my misspent youth.
Click to expand...


My ex-wife owned a Vega when we married. I hated that thing.
 
That was a PATHETIC...

TexasRaider said:
Ah yes, American engineering from the 70's....the Thermo Quad carburetor, GM's 4-6-8 engine, the Ford Pinto, Oldsmobile diesel 350's.... it was an interesting time to be alive.
Click to expand...

That was a PATHETIC. No cost cutting and make it better. Just cut cost...everywhere. The Pinto was an ashamedly crude attempt to make a high mileage car. And yeah, the early Diesels were a big flop. But at the same time, somehow America kept making the 'best' cars. At least that was what I was constantly told.
 
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Steve912 said:
The arc of trigger guard remnants look like
some metal is missing.

Any chance this revolver was demilled/destroyed
evidence, etc?
Click to expand...


I have a hard time seeing an exploded revolver there. What I see looks like what I have seen only once years ago -- a confiscated revolver that was sawn up by a police department along with a bunch of other guns, to the great and loud consternation of local gun owners who had wanted a sale of confiscated guns.
 
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