F-35 Stealth Fighter Jet is missing

[fordson]

He does and I am willingly to bet he loses his Wings. Hope I am wrong.

This is a Class A accident/incident. As such, it is beyond the scope/authority of the Squadron and Wing, although they will be assisting. The NAVSAFCEN (Naval Safety Center) will be conducting the investigation. The pilot will be interviewed and his/her statements recorded. They would have been given a full physical examination at the time of their recovery and possibly an additional exam some days later. No one ejecting from an aircraft does so without some degree of injury. A medical evaluation and toxicology report will be proved to the NAVSAFCEN as part of their investigation. Since there is a surviving crew member, their statement as to what transpired prior to their decision to eject will provide insight, as well as review of FDR data -if available - to possible causes and areas to focus the initial investigation: engine, flight control, avionics, etc. Naval and manufacturers engineering experts will be assisting the NAVSAFCEN team in the investigation. The aircraft remains will be recovered, if possible. In this case, this appears possible. The suspect areas and parts will be examined in detail with many hours of lab work to determine causes and effects. Because of flight safety concerns for the remaining fleet of aircraft, a preliminary report of findings will be released as soon as possible with the finalized report to follow. Based on the results of findings, action will be taken to rectify cause. These can include aircraft systems design changes, maintenance changes, additional team and/or flight crew training.
There are four conditions that can result in an aircraft accident:
* Structural/system failure or problems
* weather
* pilot error
* any combination of the above
Personally, I'm glad the pilot survived without any major injuries. I wish him the best results out of this incident and investigation, however he is in an unenviable position.
Unfortunately, I've been involved and assisted the NAVSAFCEN in too many of these, so I'm familiar with the process.

 

[Ματθιας]

Since, I don't trust the MSM to tell the truth about anything and if what being reported is true, I have a couple of a questions:

Where was the wingman and why did he RTB right after the ejection? Nobody thought to have the wingman, after checking status of the downed pilot, follow the newest bestest super secret multi-million dollar aircraft so see where it crashed? Really?!

Why would anyone in their right mind announce to the world on social media, that they're begging the public for help finding their top secret multi-million dollar toy? It kinda makes everyone involved look dumb.

What happened to the transponder(s) and the redundancies in systems? If it was turned off purposely, why?

But what do I know, I'm just a regular guy asking dumb questions.

 

[MDF4]

[FONT=&quot]The Marine version of the F-35 VTOL A/C is unique in that it also has an auto eject system that will, of [its} own volition, take the pilot off the rail. These people are highly trained and the last decision in a fighter pilots' mind is to punch out. The brass may determine pilot error…after all…planes don't fail, do they? It had to be pilot error. Am I biased…Yes.[/FONT]

 

[Chubbs103]

In my previous life, I was a graduate of the Naval School of Aviation Safety, Squadron Safety Officer, and I've been part of a few mishap investigations.

First, I wouldn't begin to speculate towards the cause of the mishap. There is a process, and the Safety Center is actually pretty good at it. People's attention spans will not survive the amount of time it takes to do it right.

Second, I read an article that stated the aircraft in question had its transponder off due to flying in formation. There is no conspiracy here. That's just the way you do things. Each aircraft will be given a code to squawk, but only lead will be transmitting. Other aircraft in the formation will be in stand-by and will only transmit if they have to break up the flight for some reason.

Third, (and this is where I speculate based on experience) is typically the other aircraft in a formation becomes on-scene commander for the SAR effort until out of gas or until replaced by a more capable asset. I was never part of the F-35 community, but my GUESS is that the lead pilot was concerned with the safe recovery his dash-2. By the time he/she watched them do a PLF (or hit like a sack of cement), got a good fix, and radioed in the location of the downed aircrew, the position of the now un-manned aircraft was unknown.

I know of two cases in the F-14 community where ejection was absolutely warranted, and the aircraft flew off after the event. Strange but true sometimes.

 

[Doug M.]

[FONT=&quot]The Marine version of the F-35 VTOL A/C is unique in that it also has an auto eject system that will, of [its} own volition, take the pilot off the rail. These people are highly trained and the last decision in a fighter pilots' mind is to punch out. The brass may determine pilot error…after all…planes don't fail, do they? It had to be pilot error. Am I biased…Yes.[/FONT]

*
I read about this elsewhere and there are conditions that might trigger the auto-eject. It is there due to specific characteristics of this version of the platform. Mix that with the complex software of these and it is not impossible that an ejection not of the pilot's choice might happen.
The auto-eject is there because things can happen that justify ejection faster than the pilot can decide or implement. Given the level of training that goes into developing military pilots, I am not going to jump on "pilot error" without a lot of evidence.

 

[AJ]

*
I read about this elsewhere and there are conditions that might trigger the auto-eject. It is there due to specific characteristics of this version of the platform. Mix that with the complex software of these and it is not impossible that an ejection not of the pilot's choice might happen.
The auto-eject is there because things can happen that justify ejection faster than the pilot can decide or implement. Given the level of training that goes into developing military pilots, I am not going to jump on "pilot error" without a lot of evidence.

I am willing to bet that if the auto-eject is found to be the cause there will be an Airframes Change to modify that system or to deactivate it.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Cynic that I am, I'd be looking to see if someone was pencil-whipping the maintenance records.

 

[lihpster]

OK, I'll jump on the Speculation Without any Evidence bandwagon!

The pilot was just doing his job, normal day. Aviate, navigate, communicate. All smooth. Then he looks down and sees a tarantula, that somehow made it's way into the plane before takeoff, crawl across the leg of his flight suit. Being deathly afraid of spiders, he says, "I'm outta here!", and pops the top. The tarantula, left alone in a plane with no roof, attempted to pilot it, but his lack of opposable thumbs hindered his efforts. His excellent eyesight, from his many eyes, afforded him a perfect view of the ground rushing up at him. His last thought? "If I could have figured this thing out, I would have shown those flashy dragonflies a thing or two."

 

[AJ]

Cynic that I am, I'd be looking to see if someone was pencil-whipping the maintenance records.

As soon as the squadron got the word the bird went down, all of the aircraft logbooks and maintenance records were secured for evidence. Have been involved in several mishaps. This is normal procedure.

 

[Magnum_PI]

This is both sad and scary.

Hopefully no one was near any suspected impact site, hopefully they actually recover it and not a foreign power, and sad because that is a lot of wasted money.

I recall reading when these first were introduced and being bought they had numerous issues... I guess they still do! We can't even buy working aircrafts these days for the military...

 

[LVSteve]

This is both sad and scary.

Hopefully no one was near any suspected impact site, hopefully they actually recover it and not a foreign power, and sad because that is a lot of wasted money.

I recall reading when these first were introduced and being bought they had numerous issues... I guess they still do! We can't even buy working aircrafts these days for the military...

A good example of how the F-35 program has painted itself into a corner may be found here.

F-35 Engine Running Too Hot Due To '''Under-Speccing,''' Upgrade Now Vital (Updated)

 

[SMSgt]

This is both sad and scary.

Hopefully no one was near any suspected impact site, hopefully they actually recover it and not a foreign power, and sad because that is a lot of wasted money.

I recall reading when these first were introduced and being bought they had numerous issues... I guess they still do! We can't even buy working aircrafts these days for the military...

Apparently you have not researched military aircraft development. Even as far back as WWII, every aircraft has undergone numerous updates and modifications from prototype to end of service. Production line and field modifications are common. To wait until any and all bugs are worked out would result in an obsolete aircraft coming off the production line.

 

[AJ]

Hopefully no one was near any suspected impact site, hopefully they actually recover it and not a foreign power, and sad because that is a lot of wasted money.

As soon as the crash site was located it was cordoned off by Military Police and access to the site was extremely limited. The local police/State Troopers would also have been involved. But the immediate site was considered a military/FAA procedure. All and I mean all recovered items/pieces of aircraft are being laid out on a hanger floor at MCAS Beaufort, SC. and it is guarded also.

 

[AJ]

Apparently you have not researched military aircraft development. Even as far back as WWII, every aircraft has undergone numerous updates and modifications from prototype to end of service. Production line and field modifications are common. To wait until any and all bugs are worked out would result in an obsolete aircraft coming off the production line.

Also lives are lost in development. Major Richard Bong the highest scoring US Ace of WW II was killed in a crash Richard Bong - Wikipedia and Capt. Joseph McConnell the highest scoring U.S. Jet Ace was also killed in a crash Joseph C. McConnell - Wikipedia .
Many others have died in various stages of development over the last 120 years of flight.

 

[Ματθιας]

Apparently you have not researched military aircraft development. Even as far back as WWII, every aircraft has undergone numerous updates and modifications from prototype to end of service. Production line and field modifications are common. To wait until any and all bugs are worked out would result in an obsolete aircraft coming off the production line.

Hold on. The X-35 first flew in 2000, and the production F-35 made it's first flight in 2009.

Is it acceptable that, in all that time, and nearly 2 TRILLION dollars, that bugs haven't been worked out to the point that the media is reporting that they are only mission capable 55% of the time?

Maybe it's just me, but it seems silly to keep dumping money we don't have, into an expensive lemon and maintenance pig that the F-35, (aka Fat Amy), is!

On top of that, numerous articles are saying that the transponder(s) failed. So much for redundant systems.

 

[WardenRoss]

At least we know what it sounded like! Eye witness account!

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAoUfHwtGVc[/ame]

 

[SMSgt]

Hold on. The X-35 first flew in 2000, and the production F-35 made it's first flight in 2009.

Is it acceptable that, in all that time, and nearly 2 TRILLION dollars, that bugs haven't been worked out to the point that the media is reporting that they are only mission capable 55% of the time?

Maybe it's just me, but it seems silly to keep dumping money we don't have, into an expensive lemon and maintenance pig that the F-35, (aka Fat Amy), is!

On top of that, numerous articles are saying that the transponder(s) failed. So much for redundant systems.

Clearly you don't understand the military acquisition process, especially how it has evolved today. The "prototype" flew in 2000. As the military asks for more and more, systems become astronomically more involved. The more involved it is, the longer it takes to develop and work out any "bugs." I worked with the ill-fated Comanche helicopter program, and the requirements set by the Army kept changing, wishing in one hand for systems not even developed yet, and hoping the costs would remain the same. And then you the desire for multiple manufacturers to be involved so everyone gets their piece of the government pie. Try getting GM, Ford, Crysler, and just for fun, BMW to build a car meeting "Mil-spec" that keeps changing on a regular basis. Aircraft are no longer WWII simple. They have quite literally jumped from the crank phone to I-phones in a matter of years. Yet some think it's no different than building a better mouse trap.

As for the transponder "failing," it is common for the lead aircraft only to have the transponder set to transmit while the other aircraft in the flight--the lost wingman in this case--to have theirs in standby, on but not transmitting.

 

[Ματθιας]

Clearly you don't understand the military acquisition process, especially how it has evolved today. The "prototype" flew in 2000. As the military asks for more and more, systems become astronomically more involved. The more involved it is, the longer it takes to develop and work out any "bugs." I worked with the ill-fated Comanche helicopter program, and the requirements set by the Army kept changing, wishing in one hand for systems not even developed yet, and hoping the costs would remain the same. And then you the desire for multiple manufacturers to be involved so everyone gets their piece of the government pie. Try getting GM, Ford, Crysler, and just for fun, BMW to build a car meeting "Mil-spec" that keeps changing on a regular basis. Aircraft are no longer WWII simple. They have quite literally jumped from the crank phone to I-phones in a matter of years. Yet some think it's no different than building a better mouse trap.

As for the transponder "failing," it is common for the lead aircraft only to have the transponder set to transmit while the other aircraft in the flight--the lost wingman in this case--to have theirs in standby, on but not transmitting.

You're right, I don't know about the military acquisition process. I do know one thing, the military industrial complex exists. I mean, how else can the government spend nearly, 2 TRILLION dollars, two decades of development and produce an aircraft that's only mission capable 55% of the time, and be acceptable. Good enough for government, as the saying goes.

I wasn't alive at the time, but I read that Ford, GM and Chrysler, got together with other .gov contractors and participated in the Space Program to get man to the moon. They did all that in less than a decade while developing tech without the use of anything close to the tech we have today. They seemed to be on time and on budget even with major changes after Apollo 1.

You may be right, but the numerous articles I read, specifically said the transponder failed. Given that USMC hasn't said anything on the record and the MSM isn't known for telling the truth about anything, but spins a narrative, who really knows?

As I said earlier, I'm just a regular guy asking dumb questions.

 

[LVSteve]

You may be right, but the numerous articles I read, specifically said the transponder failed.

But have any of those articles been written by anybody who knows the first thing about how military aircraft fly in formation during peacetime?

 

[AJ]

Where was the wingman and why did he RTB right after the ejection? Nobody thought to have the wingman, after checking status of the downed pilot, follow the newest bestest super secret multi-million dollar aircraft so see where it crashed? Really?!

Was there a wingman? Not uncommon for missions to be flown single ship. It will all come out in the Accident Board's findings.