Factory Letter received on Pre-Victory model 4" .38 special.....

[LOBO]

I recently received the factory letter on this Pre-Victory model with 4" barrel in .38 special that has what appears to be Israeli markings on it.

I thought this was kind of neat. In Pates book, on page 150, there is a picture of a gun near identical to mine. The one in Pates book went to the United States Marine Corp in San Francisco, CA and mine went to the United States Maritime Commission also in San Francisco, CA.

 

[BibleronKJV]

Nice gun. Unusual grips. I wonder if the grips were Israeli installed? Congratulations on a nice specimen. Regards, Ron

 

[gmborkovic]

I have never seen grips that look like that They resemble a smooth magna
with no medallion. Can you post a pic of the backsides.

 

[lamarw]

Thanks for sharing the letter information. I am waiting on a letter on my 4" Pre-Victory that went to the Union of South Africa. Its serial number is a couple of thousand lower than yours.

I wish mine was in as nice a condition as yours. The grips on it are checkered with the diamond in the center. It is serial numbered to the revolver on the interior of the right grip.

It is also a .38 S&W vs. .38 Special.

 

[Absalom]

Thanks for sharing. Nice condition, interesting specimen.

Too bad that the picture in Pate's book does not show the grips on the Israeli re-import he referenced. As already mentioned, the grips on yours are interesting, like unfinished magnas. Definitely not the standard Victory grips, although they do fit the description in the letter.

Your gun must have been among the last batch of pre-Victorys shipped. By May 25, 1942, they were a month into producing with the V-prefix.

 

[DWalt]

I have six on my list with very nearby SNs. All shipped in June 1942, most (4) went to the U. S. Maritime Commission, the other two I show no destination. Grips are probably Israeli-made.

 

[LOBO]

I have never seen grips that look like that They resemble a smooth magna
with no medallion. Can you post a pic of the backsides.

On the left side of the gun is "Tradin Toms, Philadelphia PA". Is anyone familiar with Tradin Toms? I haven't had much luck searching for them online. I figure they are the ones who imported the gun from Israel. I would like to make contact with them to see if they know any info about the guns history regarding its Israeli use.

 

[Absalom]

On the left side of the gun is "Tradin Toms, Philadelphia PA". Is anyone familiar with Tradin Toms? I haven't had much luck searching for them online. I figure they are the ones who imported the gun from Israel. I would like to make contact with them to see if they know any info about the guns history regarding its Israeli use.

No idea who they are or were, but I wouldn't expect them to be able to know anything. From what I've heard, a lot of the importers bought this surplus stuff at auction, sometimes by weight, from international dealers; they wouldn't have come anywhere near Israel to acquire them.

 

[DWalt]

I know nothing about Tradin' Toms, but they are likely one of the legion of U. S. based surplus gun importers. The fact that the stamp is present indicates that importation occurred after the implementation of the U. S. Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA-68) which required such markings. Pursuing further information is likely to be a waste of your time.

 

[LOBO]

I know nothing about Tradin' Toms, but they are likely one of the legion of U. S. based surplus gun importers. The fact that the stamp is present indicates that importation occurred after the implementation of the U. S. Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA-68) which required such markings. Pursuing further information is likely to be a waste of your time.

Thanks. One of the things I was curious about was when it went through "Tradin Toms" possession.

 

[LOBO]

I have six on my list with very nearby SNs. All shipped in June 1942, most (4) went to the U. S. Maritime Commission, the other two I show no destination. Grips are probably Israeli-made.

So mine is the earliest on your list that shipped to the U. S. Maritime Commission?

 

[DWalt]

No, I have another listed in the 982xxx range shipping on May 11, 1942, which is the earliest U. S. MarComm SN on my list. That is not to say that there are not earlier U. S. Maritime Commission guns, only that it is the earliest on my list. Others may respond if they have documented US Maritime pre-Victories having earlier shipping dates and serial numbers.

 

[Skeetr57]

The Israelis manufactured a copy of the M&P in 9mm which had grips very similar to the ones on the subject gun. I suspect that the grips were replaced while in Israeli hands. It would be very interesting to me to find how it came into the posession of Israel.

 

[DWalt]

The Israelis bought weapons anywhere they could, and in the early days, almost any gun imaginable could be found in the Israeli arsenals, most being military weapons from WWII.

 

[LOBO]

It would be very interesting to me to find how it came into the posession of Israel.

I'd like to know that too!

 

[Absalom]

The gun certainly had an interesting history, but there is nothing particularly unusual or peculiar about it ending up in Israel. As a USMC gun, it most likely ended up in the gun locker of a WW II merchant ship or at a shore location, and after the war entered the huge flood of surplus small arms scrap sloshing around the world. As DWalt says, Israel bought up guns wherever they could find them; as late as the Six Day War 1967, some Israeli reservists went into battle with German 98k Mausers. So Israel may have gotten this gun from some Allied surplus sale, or more likely an international dealer in Europe. You're unlikely to ever find out. But your gun's post-war adventures may have been more exciting than during WW II.