Fast DA Shooting

[MissouriCrowinMass]

I decided to shoot revolvers this year in my Club's Pin Shoots. No special reason, I just thought it would be fun. I tried a Ruger GP-100, 6" last month. This month, I'd like to use either my 686, 4" or 28-2, 6" as pictured.

I was accurate enough but VERY slow with the revolver. I shot everything SA. Today, I did some FAST DA practice. Not as good as SLOW SA

Question: It seemed to help in DA when I squeezed the trigger enough to get the hammer 1/2 way back just before getting into sight alignment with the target. Wise or dumb? It would be unsafe as heck in any SD situation but for bowling pins OK?

Any tips on fast DA firing? I love the triggers in the Smiths.

Thanks,

MC

 

[Pisgah]

Everybody is different, but I have found the quick, smooth straight-through pull to be most accurate in DA fire. I was taught by a retired ploice officer and competition shooter, and I have taught DA shooting to a few other shooters. Without fail every one was using the "staging method" and getting sorry results before I got them to try it my way. Dryfire practice can help tremendously -- concentrate on keeping the front sight where you want it, and just roll that trigger right through with no hesitation whatsoever. Once you can hit reliably at slow speed, upping the speed with good results is surprisingly easy.

 

[haggis]

Everybody is different, but I have found the quick, smooth straight-through pull to be most accurate in DA fire. I was taught by a retired police officer and competition shooter, and I have taught DA shooting to a few other shooters. Without fail every one was using the "staging method" and getting sorry results before I got them to try it my way. Dryfire practice can help tremendously -- concentrate on keeping the front sight where you want it, and just roll that trigger right through with no hesitation whatsoever. Once you can hit reliably at slow speed, upping the speed with good results is surprisingly easy.

+1, Pisgah.

Your trigger finger is decoupled from the rest of your hand(s). You move the trigger back with a smooth pull while the rest of you is concentrating on keeping the sights aligned. You always get a surprise break. Increase speed as you get used to the method.

Try to get as high a hold on the gun as possible, and hold it with about the same pressure you would a baseball bat. That minimizes muzzle flip and returns the sights as quickly as possible.


Buck

 

[AzShooter]

I've got to agree with the others. Speed will come with practice, don't try to rush it. Dry fire a lot. Keep your concentration on the front sight never leaving what you want to hit.

 

[robctwo]

I have just recently been doing more revolver shooting, and working on speed with the DA. My right hand "walks" up the grip as I shoot. Especially the heavier loads. I'm used to the straight grips on semis. This rounded hump thing is odd.

I'm finding the straight pull through is much better for me.

I learned to press with my finger tip on the trigger for semis. This doesn't work at all for the revolver. I'm squeezing with my first finger joint. Trying to get a straight back pull, but it's odd.

 

[cmort666]

Question: It seemed to help in DA when I squeezed the trigger enough to get the hammer 1/2 way back just before getting into sight alignment with the target. Wise or dumb? It would be unsafe as heck in any SD situation but for bowling pins OK?

Whether you "stage" or not is purely a matter of personal preference. When I started doing it in our club double action league, my scores went way up. Try both and see which works best for YOU.

As far as a self-defense shooting goes, if I've got my firearm pointed at you, it's almost 100% that you're going to get shot. I'm not going to draw my firearm until I intend to shoot you RIGHT THEN AND THERE. At that point, there's not going to be time for you to change your mind about what you were doing to cause me to reasonably believe I needed to shoot you. If it's feasible, I'll tell you to reconsider BEFORE my gun comes out. If you pass up that opportunity, there won't be any big talk or warning shots. You've put me in reasonable fear of life and limb and the time for talk or hesitation has passed. If I shoot you it'll be 100% intentional, and if "staging" prevents me from accidentally shooting somebody ELSE who DOESN'T need shooting, I'm all for it.

 

[OKFC05]

Any tips on fast DA firing?

Dry firing, lots of dry firing and practice with a partially loaded gun (some empty chambers).

Put a quarter on the top of the empty revolver, and dry fire it without knocking the quarter off. Can't do it? There's the problem: need to work the trigger without jerking the gun with the other fingers. Press the trigger straight back, no sideways pressure.

Firing with only some chambers loaded will show if the gun is moving when not fired. Ideal is gun stays still until recoil moves it.

Nothing inherently wrong with staging the trigger, but it can slow you down and if you actually move the trigger back and forth can lead to skipping a chamber. In the heat of competitiion, pulling the trigger before the front sight is on the pin can lead to early shots, missing the pin.

One element of rapid double action shooting is getting a rock solid grip that naturally aligns the sights and allows concentration on the front sight. Front sight, press...front sight, press...

 

[gboling]

There is much good advice above. Whether staging or using the straight pull, sufficient practice will tell you which is most accurate and the safest for you. Remove pretty stocks and replace with contour stocks that permit the best control. Dryfire, dryfire, dryfire.

 

[judge]

Pins are tough with a .38/357mag - the .45acp usually works better. You don't have time to stage the trigger - you must start the trigger pull on the way up from the ready position. The first pin is critical due to the extra time needed to get on target. After clearing the 1st pin, move to number 2 and begin the trigger pull while moving. As you get on target, the sights are close to where you want them to be (forget about perfect sight alignment, this ain't bullseye) - follow thru & move on to next target. If your good, you will be in the 4 second time zone - if your really good, you will be in the 3 second time zone. I use .357mag for pins - .38's ok for practice, but weak on clearing pins. The model 625 is a top choice for pins. That heavy slug really moves them off the table. Have fun!!

 

[Dan Cash]

Dry fire and dry fire some more. It builds the muscles and develops control. I wore out a new Colt trooper in 1969-70 dry firing; well it seemed that way.

 

[David Sinko]

Your trigger finger should always be moving when shooting fast DA. The hammer is already coming back as you are recovering from the recoil of the previous shot and with experience you will learn to time the hammer fall with the sights landing on the next pin. The trigger finger must not stop or even hesitate.

I disagree with the use of a coin to keep the gun steady. That will work for bullseye type shooting but not fast DA shooting. If a top level shooter encounters a dummy round or misfire in one of the chambers he looks like he will fall forward in anticipation of the recoil control. This is perfectly normal and not at all bad technique. If you read Ed McGivern's book "Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting" he explains all this and he called it the "forward poke."

For pin shooting, the only advantage the .357 Magnum has would be with an eight shot revolver that can pick up any misses. You would need the longest and heaviest bullet you can find and moving at as high a velocity as you can manage.

Dave Sinko

 

[OKFC05]

If you read Ed McGivern's book "Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting" he explains all this and he called it the "forward poke."

This jumps from "double action 101" to "graduate level."
It is important to distinguish between McGivern's "weight forward" which allows faster recovery of the gun, and a "flinch down" which happens before the gun fires. Notice in McGivern's movies, his gun does not go DOWN after the last shot, but FORWARD.

My experience in teaching double action firing to beginners or people who are having trouble with it is that first the "downward flinch" must be controlled before any real speed with accuracy can be done.

After the shooter can fire at a steady rhythm and hit each pin can we move on to techniques to achieve greater speed. We won't talk about how much ammo I burned figuring out how to apply the "forward poke" without shooting low.

 

[MissouriCrowinMass]

Thanks, for the advice. Being green with revolvers, I didn't know any of that. I'm going to try to find that book on Amazon. I really love Smiths. I picked up a Model 10-2 to go with my 28-2 and 686. They are just wonderful examples of American manufacturing and machinist craft.

Plus, the .38 Special and .357 Magnum are very interesting cartridges to reload. Many powders and many ways to go. For target shooting, I'm using a variety of bullets. Just got 500 Montana Gold 125 grain HP's. I like to Load my .357 for about a .38 Special +P Load.......using 6.6 grains of Universal. Very light for .357...easy to shoot.

 

[leas327]

At my local pin match we have one guy who dominates. He shoots a 627
and shoots the first shot single action then da from there. From what I can gather from watching him it looks like his finger is constantly riding the trigger. Meaning a quick smooth draw back then rides the trigger forward and instatly drawing back while getting the sights or optic in front of the next pin. He has told me that I need to dry fire every day as much as I can to get faster with a revolver.

 

[H Richard]

My only recommendation is to remove any serrations from the trigger, and polish it smooth. I find this improves my DA shooting.

 

[AzShooter]

One other thing that's recently been reminded to me. Hold the pistol as hard as you can. Even if it starts to shake a bit. If the sights are on you will hit what you are aiming at. This is from Mossad Ayoob's training.

I was able to bring my split times back down to .25 seconds and still be hitting every target at 10 yards. 15 yard splits go from .25 sto .30 seconds.

I slow down a little for longer shots, not much for 20 and 25 yards but probably 1 second to 1.5 seconds for 25 yard shots under the clock.

Bullseye practice is m uch different.

Good luck.

 

[Ace-3]

The wonderful world of double action shooting welcome it is a great and exciting journey you have embarked on. First get a copy of Ed McGivern's book Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting and spend some time with it. He is very clear on how important that the forward trigger speed matches the rearward speed and a straight through trigger pull. I have found the great thing with the DA revolver is the versatility that you have with the trigger. You can run the trigger to match the shooting you are engaged in. Slow, fast, staged, rolling etc. The real beauty of the DA trigger is with time and practice you build the ability to adjust the sights as you are running the trigger both on the rearward stroke and the forward stroke. When this starts to happen you know you are getting some where. I would suggest that if you are very serious about learning to shoot DA revolver you get a quality 22 cal revolver ( 617, 17, 18 ) that mirrors your center fire revolver then work with the smaller caliber also dry fire your center fire and as everyone else has said practice a lot.

 

[Lynyrd Skynyrd]

Dry firing and developing your grip are important. If you are going for fast double action you aren't staging, look at the videos on youtube of Jerry Miculek and I don't think you'll catch him staging. I forget the exact poundage but he has a very heavy trigger return spring in his gun, no light trigger pull for him, he says a light spring slows him down waiting for the return. You have to have a strong grip to hold the revolver on target. Some of the great double action shooters also don't stage when shooting for accuracy.

 

[Bullseye Smith]

When you dry fire get a 2 or 3 lb weight to add to you hand when you dry fire. When you go to a match the gun will feel lite as a feather. On the trigger pull, it is something that you have to work out for yourself. I pull the trigger back untill the cylinder lock goes inplace, then I shoot like it is a single action. I do this all the time in Bullseye, by the way Double action is the only way I shoot.

 

[skiingbear]

I think every one starts out stageing the hammer. But with the practice suggested above You will be pulling straight through. Single Action is for Cowboy Shooting. And long range.