February 3, 1959 ...

[mc5aw]

RIP Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens, and the Big Bopper.

Air disasters are often overlooked as causes for losing our musical idols, but they've taken a toll over the decades. Add members of Lynyrd Skynyrd, Randy Rhoads, Otis Redding, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Jim Croce, and John Denver to the list.

 

[shouldazagged]

And Patsy Cline, Carole Lombard, Glenn Miller, Will Rogers, and many others--not just musicians. But this is a sad anniversary for fans of the music of Holly's era.

 

[Coldshooter]

must be time for this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAsV5-Hv-7U

 

[Calaveras Slim]

I was mowing the back yard on the 4th, the next day, when my mom came out and told me about the plane. Course she didn't know who these guys were.

 

[vytoland]

Charles Hardin Holley ............one of the true pioneers of rock n roll.............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN2L84dvoag

 

[P&R Fan]

The Father of one of my old girlfriends was a teenager in Mason City back then. He wanted to go to that concert but didn't. After the wreck he went to the local newspaper office. They had pictures of the crash site, including ones of the bodies on the ground. He asked if he could have the prints. They said sure, and gave him the original prints!
He later became an Assembly of God minister and put together a display of the photos. I saw them about 30 years ago. He has studied the wreck and believes the pilot was shot. The farmer that owned the land found a .22 revolver, and shot it empty, so there is no way to know.
Very interesting story.
Jim

 

[Harkrader]

P&R fan:
The pilot's son had his father's corpse dug up in 2007, hoping to prove that theory of his having been shot. The body was in very good condition for the re-exam and the physician concluded there was no evidence of a bullet wound and that he had died of massive head trauma.

The gun belonged to Holly, and I have heard no plausible theory as to why he would have shot the pilot. I don't know what model gun it was, but unless it was a gun like the Ruger Single-Six as they were originally manufactured, I don't see how it could have "gone off" in the plane.

The investigation of the crash was quite thorough. The pilot lacked the skills for flying in adverse weather and lost control of the plane. It was also determined that he was not familiar with how to use the attitude indicating instrument in the airplane, a 1947 Beechcraft Bonanza.

After 17 years investigating aviation crashes, I could make a rubber stamp of that kind of accident, with blanks only for the names and dates.

I was stationed at Reese AFB in the Mid-'70s, which was outside Lubbock TX, Holly's home. He was highly revered, there.

 

[P&R Fan]

This Pastor was the only one I heard with that belief. So can I assume the theory of the pilot being shot was a widely held belief?
Jim

 

[kozmic]

The "Winter Dance Party" was on my birth date (2/2/59) and ended at midnight. Notice that admission was a buck and a quarter!

A concert with a "similar line-up" today could easily cost 100 to even 1000+ times that amount!

 

[msinc]

The pilot was pretty young, 23 but I don't know if it could be concluded that he lacked the skills to fly in adverse weather. He was not rated to fly on instruments. The instrument in question was a Sperry attitude gyro. It shows the disposition of the aircraft in relation to level flight. This particular model which was just installed in the Beechcraft Bonanza was different than what the pilot was used to. Typical attitude gauges had an image of an airplane in them as though you are looking at it from the rear and the image tilted as the plane was banked to turn. It will also show nose up or down. The new gauge showed the horizon tilting, but the image of the plane stayed level. The rotation of the engine torques the aircraft and has to be trimmed out for level flight otherwise the aircraft will slowly bank. When it has banked far enough the wings, no longer level lose lift and if the situation is not corrected the aircraft flies right into the ground. This is not a big deal when you can see the horizon to know whats going on, but on instruments you have to watch them to know at all times what is happening. Some instruments are "watched" more than others and a quick glance at the gyro would have showed what he was used to seeing to denote level flight, all the while banking worse and going down. They hadn't reached altitude yet so it didn't take long to return to ground. The then version of the NTSB {actually called something else back then} determined that it was pilot error, but not due to the pilots inexperience in bad weather. It was a simple matter of switching the way something worked that the pilot was not familiar with or used to using. If someone switched the shift pattern in our car to the reverse and park was down the bottom we would probably all tear the transmission out on the first trip.
Many people don't know it but this accident was the one that started the names of accident victims being withheld pending notification of next of kin...Holly's wife miss carried their child when she heard he was killed on the radio. Valen's mother had a severe episode as well when she heard it on the news.

 

[Harkrader]

P&R Fan: I don't know if there was wide belief in that story about the gun, but all it took was a hint and, just like today, rumors spread and gain traction way out of their meaning or value.

msinc: You have a very good report of those details. I've flown both of those types of indicators and many others. Transitioning from one to another can be a trial, especially for someone who is inexperienced with them.
If you "Bing" the crash you'll find more details about the investigation, including more about the pilot. It seem he had failed a check ride to obtain his instrument rating. I'll agree that does not mean he lacked the skills since his failure could have been for incorrectly - but safely - performing a procedure. Still, if I had made that rubber stamp, this would fit in unedited.

 

[federali]

Good Reading

I can't contribute much to this thread as I have no direct knowledge of the accident. However, the thread makes for interesting reading on a cold winter night here in the northeast.
I was 15 when the crash occurred and I followed Buddy Holly as I was then a guitar student and I've played the guitar my entire life.

Thanks for the details of that sad day when the music died.

 

[J. R. WEEMS]

Lived a few miles from there-- heard it when I got home from school--

 

[loknload]

American Pie
A long, long time ago
I can still remember how that music used to make me smile
And I knew if I had my chance
That I could make those people dance
And maybe they'd be happy for a while

But February made me shiver
With every paper I'd deliver
Bad news on the doorstep
I couldn't take one more step
I can't remember if I cried
When I read about his widowed bride
But something touched me deep inside
The day the music died

So bye-bye, Miss American Pie
Drove my Chevy to the levee, but the levee was dry
And them good old boys were drinkin' whiskey in Rye
Singin' "This'll be the day that I die
This'll be the day that I die"
Did you write the book of love
And do you have faith in God above
If the Bible tells you so?
Now do you believe in rock and roll?

Lost some great musicians that day!

 

[Grayfox]

For some reason, whenever this comes up J.P. Richardson never seems to get his due credit.
Let's hear it for The Big Bopper!

Chantilly Lace

 

[mtgianni]

A very young Waylon Jennings was playing for Buddy at the time as both were from Texas. He gave up his seat to J P Richardson as JP had a cold and thought he could sleep better than on the bus. Waylon said it messed him up for years, knowing he gave his seat away and the deaths occurred. It took him down a long spiral of drink and pills that only a good woman brought him out of. AFAIK, he played some of Buddy's tunes later in life but it took him 45+ years to get there.

 

[loknload]

Catching the tail end of the Buddy Holly Story with Gary Busey. I'm sure somewhere they played the Richie Valens story as well.

 

[ChiefStealth]

Charles Hardin Holley ............one of the true pioneers of rock n roll.............

Still playin' his songs, today.

 

[federali]

Gary Busey

I recall a publicity photo of Gary Busey with Buddy Holly's parents and Holly's guitar, a Fender Stratocaster. To the best of my knowledge, the guitar is in a museum in Lubbock TX.

 

[msinc]

A very young Waylon Jennings was playing for Buddy at the time as both were from Texas. He gave up his seat to J P Richardson as JP had a cold and thought he could sleep better than on the bus. Waylon said it messed him up for years, knowing he gave his seat away and the deaths occurred. It took him down a long spiral of drink and pills that only a good woman brought him out of. AFAIK, he played some of Buddy's tunes later in life but it took him 45+ years to get there.

Yep, Buddy Holly, in jest said to Waylon Jennings as he was leaving, "I hope that ole' bus freezes up." Waylon Jennings replied back, also in jest, "well I hope that airplane crashes." It was said that this "haunted" Waylon Jennings his entire life. Tommy Allsup flipped a coin with Richie Valens for the remaining seat...it was said that Richie Valens won the coin toss and the seat on the plane...Tommy Allsup won the rest of his life. He later opened a bar he named the "Heads Up" saloon.