Federal 38 +P+ In a S&W 638

[exfebee]

I have several boxes of Federal 147 grain Hydra Shok JHP 38 caliber +P+ ammo which i've used in my 686. My wife recently purchased a S&W 638 Five Shot - Bodyguard which weighs in at 15 ounces. These are the next step up from +P's, which the 638 is rated for. Any thoughts about the enhanced pressure of these being fired in the 638 ?

 

[Sportsterguy]

I have several boxes of Federal 147 grain Hydra Shok JHP 38 caliber +P+ ammo which i've used in my 686. My wife recently purchased a S&W 638 Five Shot - Bodyguard which weighs in at 15 ounces. These are the next step up from +P's, which the 638 is rated for. Any thoughts about the enhanced pressure of these being fired in the 638 ?

I would Highly Not Recommend it as it's not rated for +P+'s. Stick with the manufactures specs when it comes to ammo to save possible injury or death from blowing that J frame or any other weapon up.

If it doesn't blow you're going to prematurely wear the revolver out and the pain factor will rise significantly. Them J's take lots of practice to become profecient with. Being a lighweight the recoil from a +P round hurts. Don't know how much shooting your wife has had with it but you do not want her fliching from shooting that snub or she'll be missing a barn door at 10 yards.

I load my old model 36 with 158 gr. Lead Semi-wadcutters from Georgia Arms. I don't count on much expansion with a .38 special hollowpoint round out of a 2" revolver but insist on penetration to make it to the vitals.

Here is Georgia Arms website for ammo.

http://georgia-arms.com/38special.aspx?page=4

 

[exfebee]

Thanks Sporsterguy,
Thats what i was thinking also. The 638 is rated for +P. At the present i have her shooting the Winchester 158 grain, Hollow Point. Haven't tried her on the "barn door" yet, but will gradually get her up there. I've shot the +P+ through my 686 a lot over the past many years. Have over 30,000 rounds through my 686, and a lot were the +P+, as well as 357. Also have a lot of the Winchester 38s as well as 357 on hand. I got my wife the Hogue Rubber grip for the 638, as the one which came with the weapon was just too small.

 

[JohnK]

We had a long thread about this ammo awhile back, but can't locate it now.

A cop friend gave me several boxes of it, and I inquired about using it in J frames.

The consensus was it was perfectly safe in steel frame J's. Several former cops commented they had shot a bunch of it while qualifying.

It was I think, FBI standard issue at some point.

 

[exfebee]

Yes it was JohnK up until the time i retired. We all shot, qualified, & carried it in our revolvers. However, the S&W "air weight" J-Frames Body Guards may well pose a different kind of "pressure" problem if shot. Going to take care & just fire +P at the most in it. I have no problem in carrying & shooting it in my 686.

 

[OldLawman]

+P+ in airweights ?

I have a bunch of that 147 HS +P+ .38, and am always on the lookout for more.

However...

I only shoot it in my 4" 66 or my custom 2 1/8 M640-1 (and even then, it hurts !).

On the other hand, in my former life many years ago as an LEO, we shoot a lot of the FBI load in all of our K and J-frames with no problems.

 

[robotoid]

I have a bunch of that 147 HS +P+ .38

As do I, I scammed a few boxes from the range guys after we transitioned to pistols. It was only being used by the reserves, who were still limited to revolvers, and also being issued for authorized back-up guns (i.e. J frames). I qual'ed with it a few times in a 637-1. I didn't think it had anymore kick than a standard +P. I think it was more a marketing gimick thing (failed) to try and duplicate the 9MM 147 Hydra-shok round ballistics. I'd feel safe shooting the Federal 147 HS +P+ in a J frame, but maybe not another brand as there set standard for +P+.

 

[exfebee]

I can say..... it will do a Bank Robber when he's hit 4 times in the k-5 area ( double Tap x 2 ) ( 4 inch group ), with it from 20 feet away in the Bank Lobby, fired through a 686 4 inch. DOA as soon as he hit the floor.

 

[AKAOV1MAN]

The really important thing to remember about +P+ ammo is that it has no standard loading. SAAMI sets standards for most all ammo, including +P, but no one sets the standards for +P+ pressure except the guy who makes it. It could range from +P pressure to three times +P pressure or more.
I have a lot(and I mean alot) of +P+ 9mm ammo. I will only shoot it in my UZI which is a pretty rugged chunk of steel. The difference between +P and +P+ is discernable in the full size UZI, both recoil and flash, from the real UZI 10" barrel. I won't shoot +P+ 38 Special except in my .357 magnums. Maybe I am just naturally conservative...........

 

[devildog66]

I would say that without a way to determine the pressure of your ammo find, then I would use the +P+ for stouter tools. Sources of how much is +P+ vary but here is one unverified answer, "One source lists the 9 x 19 mm +P+ loading as having a pressure of 42,000 psi, an 18% increase over the standard pressure of 35,000 psi[4], and the .38 Special +P+ as 22,000, a 29% increase over the standard pressure.". The 18% figure for 9mm comes up again and again in searches BUT that could simply be authors repeating the same unverified schlock. I remember getting a bunch of Federal +P+ from a Treasury agent (Customs) and I used it in a M19 without any undue concern. Of course what this really means is that you now have an excuse to buy a 357 capable J frame!!!

 

[bountyhunter]

I have several boxes of Federal 147 grain Hydra Shok JHP 38 caliber +P+ ammo which i've used in my 686. My wife recently purchased a S&W 638 Five Shot - Bodyguard which weighs in at 15 ounces. These are the next step up from +P's, which the 638 is rated for. Any thoughts about the enhanced pressure of these being fired in the 638 ?

I wouldn't. A gun that light becomes a "bullet puller" shooting hot ammo with grain weights above maybe 130 gr. The recoil is so sharp that it yanks the brass past the crimp on the rounds yet to be fired. They grow in length and jam the cylinder.

BTW: +p+ doesn't tell anything because unlike +p, there are no pressure limits on +p+. I don't shoot it because of that.

 

[NE450No2]

Yesterday I shot some Federal 125gr +P, Federal 147gr +P+ Hydra Shok JHP, and some Winchester 158gr Lead HP+P, in a S&W 38 Special Bodyguard, and a S&W 4" Mod 15.

I could not tell any difference in recoil between the 147+P+, and the 158+P.

All rounds extracted without any issues as well.

 

[tom turner]

I'm perfectly content and confident, loading 148 gn. flat nose wadcutters in my Airweight.

Faster followup shots, accurate, and they cut a great blood trail too, unlike round nose bullets that don't open up in a short barreled .38 snubbie.

If I want .38 +P+ I'll probably just go ahead and load 'em into my 3" Model 65 or my 2 1/2" Model 66 K-frames . . . but my "always" on me little Airweight is stoked with wadcutters. I feel quite well protected too.

IMHO, save your wife the grief of having to shoot a light little gun that "kills at both ends." Let her shoot that gun and ENJOY it. If so, she'll be more willing to practice . . . and it will be familiarity, practice and confidence that will be most important in saving her life (or yours) if she ever needs to use it.

T.

PS: Yeah, the little gun will take SOME abuse but why? And, as another has said, bullets can start backing out the ends of their cases under the stout recoil in Airweights. Once you have a gun tied up that way in practice you'll swear you'll never risk your life by carrying any load that does this.

Food for thought . . .

 

[exfebee]

Tom, that is a thought regarding wadcutters. Remember back in the early '70 when we traveled airlines armed it was recommended that we carry wadcutters then. Seems like in snubbies the round slugs are not going to expand as well as in the 4 inchers. Haven't really considered that. Wadcutters will not reload as well when using Speedloaders as i am used to. I always carried my 686 along with 3 speedloaders on the belt. I do have 4 boxes of wadcutters & it would be a good idea to get her trained using them in her 638.

 

[Model 15-4ever]

My understanding is that the .38 Spl +P+ was designed to be fired in .357 Magnum guns. If you take a look at a few loading manuals, based on the velocities that the 147 +P+ is getting, the pressure spec was most likely under 23,000 psi. That's somewhat more than 20,000 psi +P but a far cry from 35,000 psi .357 Magnum. We shot it in the steel J frames as well, but only a limited amount for familiarization.

If it was my own revolver that I had to pay to repair, I wouldn't shoot +P+ in a J frame of any kind.

 

[photoman]

I have several boxes of Federal 147 grain Hydra Shok JHP 38 caliber +P+ ammo which i've used in my 686. My wife recently purchased a S&W 638 Five Shot - Bodyguard which weighs in at 15 ounces. These are the next step up from +P's, which the 638 is rated for. Any thoughts about the enhanced pressure of these being fired in the 638 ?

Other than the fact that you happen to have some on hand, I can't think of any reason to use that load in an Airweight. It's old technology. Much better loads available nowdays.