FFL Transfers in Washington state

[runscott]

I have been trying to piece together how this works in Washington State, and I'm having a hard time finding answers by searching forums, googling or by asking FFLs.

A friend told me that when I purchase a gun I should call him first and he would connect me with a 'good' FFL. I had no idea what that meant, and still don't.

So I didn't call my friend, I bought a gun, they charged me $50 and held the gun for over three weeks. Up front they had given me a 'drop dead' day to pick up the gun, telling me that if they had not heard back on the background checks by then, that I could take the gun. At one point I called the gun shop about something else and they told me that the person I was asking to talk with was busy doing background checks !?!?!? When I finally picked up my gun I asked why they never got a call back on the background check, and a tap dance ensued - something about paperwork getting piled up, possibly mislaid, etc. I didn't push, but just took my gun and went home.

So when I bought my next revolver, I took it somewhere else for the FFL work, after first googling the WA state laws about state and federal background checks. My understanding was that after ten business days, if the FFL has not been called back about the background checks, you can pick up your gun. So tomorrow would be the 1st day after the ten business days, so I called to see if I could pick it up. The answer was "No, call back in ten days". ***? They told me that they didn't want to get in trouble with whoever was doing the check, by giving out a gun, then getting a call in five days telling them that the recipient was not legally able to own a gun. So why ten more days? Why not five? or a year?

I don't get it. It seems to me that no background checks are actually done in Washington State, but rather the FFL just sits back and waits a few weeks, then lets you take your gun. What questions should I be asking my third FFL before agreeing to have them handle my transfer?

Thanks.

 

[pawngal]

Does Washington use the federal NICS background check system or does the state have its own system? Or both?

Under the federal NICS system the FFL has the OPTION to transfer after 3 business days without having a a proceed.
But the FFL is not required to ever transfer if they do not receive a Proceed.

Your mention of 10 days makes me think it is a state deal.

 

[runscott]

Does Washington use the federal NICS background check system or does the state have its own system? Or both?

Both. I 'think' the FFL either does the state requirements check itself, checking various databases and making phone calls, OR they contact someone else who begins the checks. Neither FFL would say this, but my best guess is that they call someone who basically does nothing. Our state is consistently passing laws that they do not have the labor to support, and I'm fairly sure this is one of them.

Then after a few weeks the FFL does the Federal checks, which takes almost no time.

My reason for believing the above is that both FFLs told me that if I had my CPL to bring it in and they could get things done quickly. So until July of this year (due to new initiative that the Seattle voters forced on us), having a CPL allows the FFL to bypass the state checks and go straight to the Federal. Our new initiative will kill the CPL benefit and everyone will have to wait the same amount of time.

 

[runscott]

...and the CPL is another bag of worms. It's supposed to take a MAXIMUM of thirty days in Washington state, but that is probably really the minimum - I've been waiting three weeks so far. It seems logical to me that the FFL waits as long as possible on transfers, and the sheriff/police waits the maximum 30 days on CPLs, as an unwritten way to appease the voters and state/Seattle city governments by making it as difficult as possible for people to acquire firearms.

I suppose they think this will make people not buy firearms but it's having the exact opposite effect on me. It's more difficult to buy firearms today than it was five years ago, and the latest initiative has made it even more difficult. Given that the political leanings of Seattle aren't going to change, that tells me that five years from now it will be even more difficult, so I should probably make a list of every gun I ever dreamed of owning, and buy all of them ASAP.

 

[BC38]

Washington uses the federal NICS system, but handgun purchases also require filing a form with the sheriff of the county where the purchase is made.

The problem is if you get a DELAY rather than a PROCEED they are required to hold the gun for 10 days. After that they can release it to you. HOWEVER if they get a call a day or an hour or a week later indicating that the DELAY was changed to a DENIAL, then it all turns into a big hassle for them. So a lot of them are really cautious.

Does that happen? As I understand it, yes. Very rarely, but it does happen. The best advice I can offer is to fill in your SSN on the forms. It speeds up the process because the process has recently changed to check the SSN first and check the name second. Which is the reverse of what they used to do (check name first and SSN second).

If you have a common name, or are unlucky enough to have the same name as someone with a record, there may not be much you can do. Though like I said, putting your SSN on the form helps. You can also fill out a form and get issued Unique Personal Identification Number (UPIN) that is supposed to virtually eliminate all delays or denials.

A CPL only lets you take the gun home with you the same day IF the NICS check comes back with a PROCEED. In Spokane getting a CPL is about a 30 day process. Renewing it is pretty much instantaneous - they give you the card right then and there when you go to the police station as long as you still pass the NICS check. King/Peirce counties may be a bit different ane/or take a little longer - more likely due to higher volume of applications and their bias against the idea.

Personally, I've never experienced a delay. Although my first name is common as dirt, my middle and last names are both unusual enough that it is unlikely that there is or will be a prohibited person with my name.

 

[runscott]

Thank you. At this point there isn't anything I can do, as the super-cautious 2nd FFL has all three of my recent gun purchases, and they have already made it clear (very friendly conversation) that I won't be getting any of these guns anytime soon.

By the time I purchase another I will have a CPL. I will talk with my third FFL before having anything shipped to them - (your response has made it easier for me to figure out what questions to ask, so thanks) - and if they don't make me feel a bit more warm and fuzzy that they will at least follow-up for me if there is a delay, then I will go to a fourth, etc. At some point I might give up, change parties and buy a can of Mace, but for now I'm going to be hard-headed and insist on getting at least a fraction of my Constitutional rights.

Hey, it's Friday and I'm still not looking up at dirt!!!!

 

[runscott]

Personally, I've never experienced a DELAY.

That may be because you are far enough away from Seattle that your FFL's and sheriff's offices are not concerned with upsetting anyone. I've heard that the counties far far away do not have as bad a time as we have in King and Pierce.

 

[BC38]

That may be because you are far enough away from Seattle that your FFL's and sheriff's offices are not concerned with upsetting anyone. I've heard that the counties far far away do not have as bad a time as we have in King and Pierce.

Sounds at least theoretically possible. However, I've read about others on a local gun board who have experienced pretty much the same thing that you are.

So, I think it is more likely a mistaken ID thing - or actually more like a "less than crystal-clear" ID thing.

 

[Onomea]

A friend told me that when I purchase a gun I should call him first and he would connect me with a 'good' FFL. I had no idea what that meant, and still don't.

Why not talk to your friend?

 

[runscott]

Why not talk to your friend?

Unfortunately my friend is not very communicative. I have calls and emails in to him, but no response in months. A mutual friend will call me if he's in some sort of trouble, but he just doesn't communicate well. When I first told him I was buying a 686, he suggested we get together and go to the range. I waited a month after getting the gun before finally giving up on him and going out by myself. That probably sounds weird, but I had never fired a .357 and I have weak wrists - I was foolishly afraid that I might drop the gun or do something similarly foolish when firing it for the first time. It ended up being a non-issue, but I still haven't heard back from him.

Basically, it will be faster to wait a month for a gun than to wait two months for my friend to suggest an FFL that does more than fill out forms.

 

[cherrypointmarine]

Boy am I glad I live in Florida .My gun comes in to my FFL , she takes my DL and CWP and I fill out the ATF form . Once I give it back , she runs me through . It has NEVER taken more than 30 minutes before I am walking back out the door with my Smith . It usually about 10-15 minutes . I honestly feel sorry for you guys .

 

[BC38]

Boy am I glad I live in Florida .My gun comes in to my FFL , she takes my DL and CWP and I fill out the ATF form . Once I give it back , she runs me through . It has NEVER taken more than 30 minutes before I am walking back out the door with my Smith . It usually about 10-15 minutes . I honestly feel sorry for you guys .

No need to feel sorry for me. I've done two transfers in the last month and both took less than 30 minutes start to finish. With my CPL I was able to walk out with my purchase as well.
Though come July 1 a bunch of new regs are slated to go into effect and it may change. Time will tell and we will see...

 

[runscott]

Why not talk to your friend?

...If I had it to do over again, I would have made the 1.5 hour drive to his house before buying my first WA state gun, and waited for him to show up. He did emphasize how important a good FFL was, and I didn't listen.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I assume that you are buying used guns and having them transferred to you?

For handguns there up to a ten day wait if you don’t have a CPL. On the tenth day the FFL is supposed to deliver the gun to you.

Even if you have a CPL you could be DELAYED which means you won’t be leaving with the gun immediately.

What city are you in? The transfers at my friends gun shop are $30. And they are quick about it.

 

[runscott]

I assume that you are buying used guns and having them transferred to you?

For handguns there up to a ten day wait if you don’t have a CPL. On the tenth day the FFL is supposed to deliver the gun to you.

Even if you have a CPL you could be DELAYED which means you won’t be leaving with the gun immediately.

What city are you in? The transfers at my friends gun shop are $30. And they are quick about it.

I'm in Tacoma. The FLL claimed that it is their prerogative to hold the gun past the 10 business days, and they will hold it an additional 10 business days while the state continues to do nothing.

Edited to add: so, if my FFL has an indefinite wait on delivering my firearms, is it possible to transfer them to an FFL that is more proactive?

 

[Jim R]

Join the Washington Arms Collectors.
Here is a schedule for their events.
Show Schedule

Transfers are done for $10.00 and there is normally 4 or 5 FFLs at each show to choose from. They also do transfers off site for guns being shipped to you. I have a carry permit and it has never taken more that 15 minutes for any transfer, and this includes guns that I have shipped in.

 

[runscott]

Join the Washington Arms Collectors.
Here is a schedule for their events.
Show Schedule

Transfers are done for $10.00 and there is normally 4 or 5 FFLs at each show to choose from. They also do transfers off site for guns being shipped to you. I have a carry permit and it has never taken more that 15 minutes for any transfer, and this includes guns that I have shipped in.

Hi Jim, I have an application that I will be taking in as soon as I have my cpl (saves me $15). My sponsor has even filled out the back.

The issue at this point is three firearms with an indefinite wait. I have been stewing about this since talking with them yesterday.

 

[BC38]

Join the Washington Arms Collectors.
Here is a schedule for their events.
Show Schedule

Transfers are done for $10.00 and there is normally 4 or 5 FFLs at each show to choose from. They also do transfers off site for guns being shipped to you. I have a carry permit and it has never taken more that 15 minutes for any transfer, and this includes guns that I have shipped in.

I sure wish the WAC would expand over to the east side of the state. I'm sure there are LOTS of people here who would participate and go to the shows.

 

[deadin]

WAC has a dwindling membership and I hope this latest (1639) doesn't put the final nail in the coffin. They are getting so desperate that they have recently opened sales of firearms to non-members. I haven't heard if they are going to allow non-members to bring firearms for sale. If they do, it should make the shows more interesting to collectors. (Currently the shows seem to have been mostly dealers and wanna-be dealers.)

 

[runscott]

WAC has a dwindling membership and I hope this latest (1639) doesn't put the final nail in the coffin. They are getting so desperate that they have recently opened sales of firearms to non-members. I haven't heard if they are going to allow non-members to bring firearms for sale. If they do, it should make the shows more interesting to collectors. (Currently the shows seem to have been mostly dealers and wanna-be dealers.)

To be fair, they claim that they are allowing sales to non-members as a result of the recent firearms initiative. But I'm sure dealers would also like to take advantage of the pre-July rush.