Final report...Model 64-8 and Rem primers

[metricmonkeywrench]

Has anyone had any any trouble with Rem standard small pistol primers in firing pin model revolvers?

My wife's 64-8 had misfires with 4 out of one box and 2 on from a second of my reloads that used Rem primers i picked up during the run on reloading supplies. Both times I switched to diffrent reloads with Win or CCI primers with no further problems. I end up with what looks like a light strikes possabily on a hard primer. Subsequent re-strikes will fire them off. My 10-6 with a hammer nose has no problems with them and my 9mm loads work fine.

 

[Ashlander]

Probably one of at least 3 things:

1) strain screw needs tightened;
2) frame-mounted firing pin is a few 1000/ths of an inch short (or the firing pin channel is gunked up, which creates the same problem); or,
3) strain screw is a tad short.

All are easy fixes -- especially checking the strain screw. If that's OK, firing pins and strain screws are cheap. But, if it were me, I'd call S&W and send it in. Let them figure it out and fix it.

Good luck.

 

[metricmonkeywrench]

Thanks for the replies. Stain screw is good, we did have an issue with it beeing loose when we first got it but the length/balance was adjusted and the screw is blue lock tighted in place and hasnt moved (i check it every other outing and was the first thing I checked. I'll re-check protrusion and flush the pin channel with either some rem oil or brake cleaner to see if there is any gunk in there.

 

[Kernel Crittenden]

Sometimes with handloads it's possible to push the primers deeper into the pocket, past flush. Depends on the brass make, the primer type & brand, and force used to seat the primer. Makes it hard for the firing pin to reach, especially if it might be a little borderline short to begin with. Something to check for, anyway.

 

[gwpercle]

If you are shooting reloads and the primers fire on the second strike, what is usually happening is the primer is not seated all the way down into the bottom of the primer pocket. The first blow fully seats the primer but doesn't ignite it, the second hit fires the now fully seated primer. Seat the primer fully until it bottoms out in the pocket.
That situation combined with a not extremely thin primer cup is usually the culprit .
I started seating primers off press with a hand priming tool , making sure they were all the way , bottomed out , in the pocket....that took care of the problem.
It's OK to seat the primer past flush, sometimes you have too .
Gary

 

[metricmonkeywrench]

Ok, gonna go for the next obvious step and pull the firing pin and do a gunk check and check the OAL. I am finding conflicting information though, what is the firing pin length supposed to be?

 

[lefty_jake]

See my recent post about frame mounted firing pins. Sorry that my post has a link to yet another thread, but between my post and the link there is a good overview about these pins.

I will just include the briefest summary here about frame mounted firing pins (FMFP). If the factory pin is less than .492, then replace it. Many people think ideal length is .495.

 

[twodog max]

Based on 40 years of reloading experience it is the reloaded ammo almost for certain. Before you start tearing the gun down and measuring and replacing make sure the primers are seated correctly. Some makes of primers I have found are just harder to seat.

 

[metricmonkeywrench]

Lefty, thanks exactly what I was after. Summary and link to a link was fine and gave the whole picture.

Twodog, I have yet to dismiss the reloads as a cause at all, however of the 4 pistol calibers I reload for only this one revolver has had misfire issues with the Rem primers. I am doing my due diligence as this is my wife's range/home defence pistol and I do not want her loosing confidence in reliability. We bought it second hand and I do not know the previous history of use.

 

[Toyman]

I bought a used 64-8 and had failure to fire issues with factory ammo so I ordered a longer firing pin and that took care of the problem

 

[Mike in Reedley]

When primers were hard to find months ago, I bought some Remington small pistol. I had ignition issues as well in handguns I'd never had primer issues with before. Maybe there's some lots of them out there that are a little too hard.

 

[lefty_jake]

Some people have found that the primers currently used in Remington UMC ammo are especially hard. I think it is possible that the Remington primers you have are similar.

The issue is discussed in post #3 in this thread:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/487004-s-w-j-frame-trigger-job.html

 

[gnystrom]

Lot's of good thoughts but in the end, I would not want to own a gun that requires or eliminates certain brands of ammo or primers. If the strain screw is correct and there is no grit in the internals, you may consider buying a spring kit just to make sure the hammer and rebound springs are in proper specs. At the same time, you may want to add a longer firing pin to save shipping costs. All these parts are low cost and easy to install.

 

[metricmonkeywrench]

Update, I got some time to open up the side plate and pull the firing pin to see what's going on. When I removed the firing pin it was fairly clean and gunk free so my cleaning methods are working. The caliper told the tale, the firing pin measured out to .485, so well below what lefty quoted as minimum. My shooting buddy is a S&W guru and has several new ones that when checked measure out to .493 so I'll have a replacement firing pin and spring in hand tomorrow.

I may still have an issue with hard primers, but hopefully this minimizes any further problems.

 

[H Richard]

I've used 2000 Rem Small Pistol primers in the last year, in 9mm, 32 H&R Mag, 32 S&W Long, 38 Spec, and have had zero malfunctions in a variety of guns.

 

[metricmonkeywrench]

Final report, finally made it out to the range and fired if a box of reloads that were loded at the same sitting as the original box that gave me problems. The primer strikes are definately more pronounced, though some if the primers did have a less pronounced strike, which I believe are the "harder" ones. I'll try and post some pix tonight

 

[Protocall_Design]

I would get a .500 firing pin from Apex. Just a little more insurance.

 

[scooter123]

It's been my experience that the later Remington primers are "harder" than Federal, CCI, or Winchester. Because I really like Remington brass for reloading I have re-tuned all of my S&W revolvers from an 8 lbs. DA trigger to a 9 lbs. DA trigger. This allows me to pick up a bulk box or two of UMC to shoot up for a fresh lot of brass.

Now for a couple of notes. On the revolvers that feature a Hammer Nose you need to insure the firing pin projects through the firing pin bushing by the thickness of a dime. If it doesn't Brownells sells a Power Custom Hammer Nose that features a slightly extended firing pin you can then file fit to length using a diamond file. BTW, if you don't to this fitting the dimple can be deep enough to have a few primer cups "leak" a carbon trace into the dimple. That rather borderline for a pierced primer so pay attention.

For the pin in frame revolvers Cylinder and Slide offers an Extended Travel firing pin that can really help with ignition with a lightened trigger. However, with the factory 12.5 lbs trigger weight the primers can show the same symptoms of borderline leakage as a Power Custom hammer nose that wasn't properly fitted.

Sum it up and you can get reliable ignition with Remington primers but it does require a bit more force than most primers. BTW, I really can't feel any difference between a 8 or 9 lbs. trigger even if it can be measured. So I don't thing increasing the mainspring tension by a bit is worth worrying about having a trigger that is "too heavy".

 

[Jaymo]

When primers were hard to find months ago, I bought some Remington small pistol. I had ignition issues as well in handguns I'd never had primer issues with before. Maybe there's some lots of them out there that are a little too hard.

This. I've had the same problem. Not a lot of misfires. Just enough to instill some doubt.

 

[metricmonkeywrench]

Here's the pix, you can definitely see the difference in the firing pin strike on the primers. Thanks all for the aid.