Finally heard back from Federal Cartridge Co.

[Malysh]

Over two weeks ago I sent an email to Federal asking them if they could provide me with some data figures for Nyclad 38 Special +P 158gr. ammo. They no longer make this particular round. I have 5 boxes of it and I wanted to know the velocity at the muzzle. With the velocity and the bullet weight I could calculate the FPE.
I never got a reply from them. I called them last Monday and left a polite message asking them for the figures and I mentioned that I also sent them an email from their website. I am disappointed that they have not got back to me with a reply.

I was not able to find any data for this loading on the internet. Have any of you tested this ammo or have a link to data where it was tested?

**** I got a call back today from Gary at Federal Cartridge. He apologized for the lateness of the reply, he said he had to do some research since the round isn't made anymore (which I already knew).

The 158 gr. LSWCHP Nyclad +P tested from a SAAMI 4" 38 test barrel yielded the following results:
at muzzle - 890 FPS/270 FPE
at 25 yds - 879 FPS/265 FPE

I asked if the round lost about 40 FPS from a 2" snubby (I am a snubby guy), he said "that's just about right".

I will clock this ammo with my friends chrono soon but I can expect approximately the following:
at muzzle - 850 FPS/254 FPE
at 25 yds - ?

Note: these estimates are on par with Buffalo Bore standard pressure loads from a 2" snubby:
** Short Barrel Loads below specified 2" Snub **
38 Special SWC-HC 158gr./253FPE/850FPS - at muzzle


I thought these were pretty impressive 38 figures and I wondered why the round was discontinued. He said the only reason they drop products is because they aren't selling.
I told him I won't use this round in my alloy frame Colt and S&W snubbys. His opinion was that it would not contribute to a cracked frame at 6 o'clock and that an ocassional practice cylinder's worth and to use as a carry round should not damage my 1950s S&W Airweights and Colt Lightweights.
I think if the frame is going to crack due to barrel over torquing, even a standard 38 round will do the same thing. But, I am still leary about using any +P 38 Specials in my old alloy frames. I know using +Ps in alloy frame S&Ws and Colt snubbys will accelerate wear. The virtue of the Buffalo Bore ammo over the Nyclad 158gr. for my old aluminum alloy snubbys is that the Buffalo Bore is standard pressure and the Nyclad is +P.



On another note, he said if I wasn't well stocked on ammo to get some soon because (as we've all thought), there is a lot of panic buying by customers concerned that another 4 yrs. of a democratic administration will generate more attempts to restrict our buying of ammo and guns. Federal cannot keep up with demand lately. Neither can Ruger, as I am sure we have all noted.

Cheers,
Mike

 

[26Ford]

Sir, for what its worth, my experience with Hornady Customer Service has been 100% positive. I know it doesn't help you now, but maybe for in the future. I never had to deal with Federal C.S. I had similiar poor C.S. from Speer. Good luck sir, 26

 

[tops]

All guns with the same barrel length do not shoot the same fps. Whatever the factory tells you will not tell you what your gun does. You have to test your gun to find out the fps. Larry

 

[Rule3]

All guns with the same barrel length do not shoot the same fps. Whatever the factory tells you will not tell you what your gun does. You have to test your gun to find out the fps. Larry

Absolutely.

They may have used a 10" test barrel or whatever. You need to find someone with a Chronograph and shoot it out of your gun.

Of course if you want to send me some. I would be glad to collect the data for you

10 shots, Avg FPS, High, Low, ES, and SD.

 

[Malysh]

Yes, gents, and all guns generate different pressures as well.

Two 4" bbl. Mod 10s will clock velocity and ft.lbs of energy differently. We're getting a little off topic.

I merely wanted to know if anybody had tested the ammo in their guns just to get an idea of their data, and to express my disappointment with Federal's lack of response to my questions.

If I had a chronograph I wouldn't have posted the question. I would have tested the ammo myself.

 

[Rule3]

Perhaps try in the Ammunition section or Reloading then.

 

[Texas Star]

I've had good responses from both Federal and Speer.
I hope someone with a chronograph helps you. I doubt that the Nyclad bullet expands as well as the plain lead load, which Federal calls their 38G offering. It's been very accurate in my guns, but I've never shot any live animals with it.

A friend shot a javelina behind the shoulder with that load or the Winchester equivalent and had to chase it down and fire several more shots. The bullets probably didn't expand much, but gave good penetration. The lung shots may not have offered enough resistance to cause expansion. A heart shot might well have done better.

 

[cussedemgun]

I've never been one to chase after catchy names or such marketing hype, BUT;

IIRC wasn't nyclad one of the bullets removed from the market because of concern (read bad press) of the coating enabling them to penetrate body armor. If this is true, no wonder Fed & Co. aren't forthcoming on further info for an item where they were "once burned".

Seems to me that the factory complete boxes that didn't get gathered up in a recall now have a collector's value greater than shooting ammo.

 

[Texas Star]

I've never been one to chase after catchy names or such marketing hype, BUT;

IIRC wasn't nyclad one of the bullets removed from the market because of concern (read bad press) of the coating enabling them to penetrate body armor. If this is true, no wonder Fed & Co. aren't forthcoming on further info for an item where they were "once burned".

Seems to me that the factory complete boxes that didn't get gathered up in a recall now have a collector's value greater than shooting ammo.

No, you have the wrong item in mind. The only concern with Nyclad is that some early lots made while S&W had the brand was that the jackets didn't take rifling marks well, leading to evidence concerns. I think they thinned the jackets and that was fixed.

I believe the KTW bullets you mean were never released to public sale. It was mainly a media feeding frenzy. They had a different jacket and (I think) a tungsten or other bullet material.

However, 7.63mm Mauser and 7.62mm Tokarev FMJ bullets will also often penetrate vests, as Hong Kong cops learned the hard way.

 

[cussedemgun]

No, you have the wrong item in mind. The only concern with Nyclad is that some early lots made while S&W had the brand was that the jackets didn't take rifling marks well, leading to evidence concerns. I think they thinned the jackets and that was fixed.

I believe the KTW bullets you mean were never released to public sale. It was mainly a media feeding frenzy. They had a different jacket and (I think) a tungsten or other bullet material.

However, 7.63mm Mauser and 7.62mm Tokarev FMJ bullets will also often penetrate vests, as Hong Kong cops learned the hard way.

Thank you Tex for the refresher for my fuzzy ol' fttttz memory. I thought the nyclad name's merchandise involved but could not remember the whole story. I still am not surprised that FCC would as soon leave the whole association buryed in the arcives. There are terms that the anti-press have coined that are just as well left to be never again repeated.

 

[Texas Star]

Thank you Tex for the refresher for my fuzzy ol' fttttz memory. I thought the nyclad name's merchandise involved but could not remember the whole story. I still am not surprised that FCC would as soon leave the whole association buryed in the arcives. There are terms that the anti-press have coined that are just as well left to be never again repeated.

You mean like W-W renamed Black Talon as Ranger?

 

[REM 3200]

Over two weeks ago I sent an email to Federal asking them if they could provide me with some data figures for Nyclad 38 Special +P 158gr. ammo. They no longer make this particular round. I have 5 boxes of it and I wanted to know the velocity at the muzzle. With the velocity and the bullet weight I could calculate the FPE.
I never got a reply from them. I called them last Monday and left a polite message asking them for the figures and I mentioned that I also sent them an email from their website. I am disappointed that they have not got back to me with a reply.

I was not able to find any data for this loading on the internet. Have any of you tested this ammo or have a link to data where it was tested?

I have had great responses from Federal. A few years ago I asked them a question about reloads using 2400 powder. They had me send them some of my reloads to pressure test and they called me with the data. What more could one ask for.

 

[m1gunner]

.38 Special Federal Nyclad 158 gr SWC HP+P
2" bbl = 821 fps
4" bbl = 855 fps
6" bbl = 874 fps


This is from an old article in one of the gun rags. From other references I have seen, It sounds about right. Have no idea of temp, altitude, etc of the test site.

 

[papajohn428]

Those I've tested in wetpack and water jugs have been so old they'd become brittle, the front section shatters and the base end of the bullet penetrates far farther than I'd like. I no longer carry Nyclads in any of my off-duty guns. Go with the Gold Dots if you can find them, if not there are several versions of the FBI/Metro Load that still work fine.

 

[Malysh]

A special thanks to m1Gunner for digging up those figures for me and to papajohn428 for sharing his tests and experiences with the round as a LEO.

I don't know why, but after I get a few initial notifications that I have received a reply to threads, I got no more notifications since post # 9, yet I check into the forum every day. I haven't got a notice from the forum since then. That's one reason I haven't checked back here.
Yes, I re-checked all my User settings and they are still set to "immediate notification by email", so it's probably something with my computer.

I'm bumping this thread up due to a reply from FCC today. Please read the new information in my first post.

Mike

 

[Malysh]

Those I've tested in wetpack and water jugs have been so old they'd become brittle, the front section shatters and the base end of the bullet penetrates far farther than I'd like. I no longer carry Nyclads in any of my off-duty guns. Go with the Gold Dots if you can find them, if not there are several versions of the FBI/Metro Load that still work fine.

If that's what your Nyclad +P 38s looks like, it does look pretty ratty. I have to say the five boxes I have look like they were manufactured last week. They are still evenly coated and still blue.
How did the degradation of the Nyclad coating affect the performance of the ammo? I don't understand that. I wouldn't think that would affect the ammo's performance since we're not talking about a cartridge gilded with metal over lead, only one with a thin synthetic coating over lead.

 

[sub-moa]

...there are several versions of the FBI/Metro Load that still work fine.

The pic papajohn posted is of the 158LHP+P FBI/Metro Load he mentioned...

 

[Malysh]

OK, thank you. It sure doesn't look like a Nyclad.

I still don't see why a brittle or dried up coating would have a great effect on the Nyclad ammo.

 

[papajohn428]

The brittleness wasn't just the outer nylon coating, it was exhibited throughout the bullet. The hollow nose shattered, leaving tiny lead fragments all along the bullet path in the wetpack, and they even came apart in the water jugs, except for the cores, which zipped right through five jugs and disappeared into the next county.

As mentioned, the picture displayed above is of the 158-grain lead hollow-point round, in this case the Remington version.

 

[Malysh]

The brittleness wasn't just the outer nylon coating, it was exhibited throughout the bullet. The hollow nose shattered, leaving tiny lead fragments all along the bullet path in the wetpack, and they even came apart in the water jugs, except for the cores, which zipped right through five jugs and disappeared into the next county.

As mentioned, the picture displayed above is of the 158-grain lead hollow-point round, in this case the Remington version.

Thanks for amplifying the explanation for me.