Fiocchi and GFL .357 brass and CCI small magnum pistol primers

[desmobob]

I was recently given several hundred pieces of once-fired Fiocchi and GFL .357 brass.

I reloaded some yesterday and found I could barely seat my older CCI small magnum pistol primers; I had to use an uncomfortable amount of force. These are the last of my old stock of these primers from back when they came in the small boxes with the primers standing in rows, edge-to-edge.

Although I've never heard of it in this caliber, I thought either the original primers might have been crimped in place (it kind of looks like they might be) or that the brass was made for Euro primers that might be a touch smaller than the CCIs. (Strange because European shot shell primers are larger than US brands.)

I set up my RCBS primer pocket swaging set, hoping that running the brass through it would help. It didn't.

Is there any danger or potential ignition issues from having to force the CCI primers (slowly) into these cases?

 

[ReloadforFun]

Older CCI primers were generally harder to seat compared with newer CCI primers.

Try some recent CCI primers and see if they are easier to seat.

Let us know.

 

[Alk8944]

GFL is Fiocchi. These are two of several head-stamps that Fiocchi uses depending, apparently, on the plant the ammunition was manufactured at. And no, the primer pockets are not crimped on Fiocchi commercial brass, it is just a combination of tolerances between the primers and primer pockets. As little as .0001" tighter will give a noticeable difference in seating pressure. And, No again, there is no ignition hazard from increased seating pressure.

For the future, if a primer has been crimped in a case the crimp is obvious on visual examination!

 

[alwslate]

I have found that older CCI small or large primers were very hard to seat in any brand case so I quit buying them. Newer ones may be better but I bought enough Winchester primers back before the Pandemic to last me so I don't need any more. Personally I wouldn't buy CCIs ever again.

 

[desmobob]

Back during the original primer shortage (pre-Bill Clinton election), I stocked up on primers. And I mean, stocked up. Almost all of what I have is CCI brand.

I have dealt with crimped-in primers before (and still do) with some military 5.56 brass, hence me having the primer pocket swager.

This Fiocchi brass had what looked like a very tiny indented ring around the primers that, as I mentioned, sort of looked like they might have been crimped. I couldn't think of any reason why they would be, but hey -- you never know...

Thanks for the replies, gentlemen.

 

[H Richard]

In loading mixed brass on my Dillon every time I run into a hard to seat primer, it seems to be nearly all Fiocchi brass. It is in the alignment that causes the problem, The Fiocchi is such tight tolerance it must be in perfect alignment. I usually throw away the Fiocchi brass.

 

[desmobob]

Older CCI primers were generally harder to seat compared with newer CCI primers.

Try some recent CCI primers and see if they are easier to seat.

Let us know.

I think I do have some newer CCI small pistol magnum primers. I'll try them with the next batch of reloads with the Fiocchi brass and post my experience.

 

[Sevens]

Is there any danger or potential ignition issues from having to force the CCI primers (slowly) into these cases?

I think there are two ways I would answer this question.

1) I think there is potential for damage to your equipment, depending on specifically what you are using to prime. If you are using a very simple and stout ram priming tool, I would not worry even slightly about damaging your equipment. However if you are using some low-end hand priming tool, especially one with cast or plastic parts then I could see stress damaging or outright breaking this equipment.

2) I believe there is (nearly) no risk whatsoever in detonating a primer as long as the primer is centered and slowly seated in a normal fashion.

Primers are well designed to take a violent and specific STRIKE to detonate. I would imagine some manner of a full crush would also detonate.

I can relay my specific experience but it is simply what I've seen in 3-1/2 decades and many hundreds of thousands of rounds loaded - I've damaged and effectively ruined/destroyed hundreds of primers with occasional misalignment, feed issues, etc, and I have never even one time detonated a primer at my bench.

Over this same expanse of time, I've taught many new handloaders this hobby and it often comes up that a new loader is somewhat wary of priming cases with regards to how hard to push, how much resistance in seating and the chance of an unintended detonation. For this, I offer this learning exercise:

Get all the primers and all the powder very much away from the setup, then take one primer and one case and line everything up and then place a heavy towel or many times folded towel over the entire operation as a make-shift "blast shield" and with safety glasses on and a clean pair of shorts, operate the press lever in a gorilla fashion, absolutely intent on DETONATING a primer.

I suspect that you won't succeed in detonation, however if you do succeed, observe the brute gorilla force that it took.

 

[Sevens]

I was recently given several hundred pieces of once-fired Fiocchi and GFL .357 brass.

As an aside, not sure how many several hundred might be, but if you end up too frustrated to deal with these, I might be interested in a brass trade to get them, however, it won't be .357 Magnum brass, it would have to be something different you need that I might have. Just let me know if interested.

 

[Dvus]

It has been my experience that Fiocchi brass primer pockets are not chamfered, or not well chamfered. Most of these will benefit greatly from a touch from a pocket chamfering tool. This experience comes from several hundred .45 colt Fiocchi and GFL cases I have.

 

[desmobob]

It has been my experience that Fiocchi brass primer pockets are not chamfered, or not well chamfered. Most of these will benefit greatly from a touch from a pocket chamfering tool. This experience comes from several hundred .45 colt Fiocchi and GFL cases I have.

Ah ha... I thought of swaging, first thing. But reaming...

I just ordered a small primer pocket reamer. Thank you!

 

[WR Moore]

None of the primer pocket reamers I've ever seen chamfer the pocket edge. A primer pocket uniforming tool makes sure the primer pocket has a flat bottom and is the correct depth. A chamfering/deburring tool will set you back a very small amount. Probably being sold as a deburring tool. My apologies if you're simply using a different term for this item.

PMC also suffers (or it did waaay back when) from a lack of chamfer on the edge of the primer pocket. The brass was very picky about the primer & case being exactly aligned. Over time, the case head would very, very slightly deform to require chamfering. I simply started chamfering all the PMC cases. I do the same on any/all Fiocchi.

 

[desmobob]

I ordered this one... Primer Pocket Reamer | Case Prep Tools

It looks like the cutting edge acts on the primer pocket and the top/edge of the pocket. I hope it is suitable.

 

[WR Moore]

Actually, I was thinking of the Lee 90109-or someone's similar gadget- deburring tool. Your selection might work, but you really want to do more than just remove the crimp.

 

[gwpercle]

Use a Primer Pocket Uniforming Tool on the pockets ...
Several co's make them , mine is from CH4D and another from Lyman .
The PPUT cuts the pockets to a uniform diameter and depth .

Do it once and case pocket is good to go forever more !
Gary

 

[desmobob]

The Lyman tool I bought helped somewhat, but switching to a more current production date of the primers helped a lot! (primers in the newer, current style packaging.)

I guess the old ones were slightly larger in diameter. I'll mic a few when I get a chance.

 

[M29since14]

I have found that older CCI small or large primers were very hard to seat in any brand case so I quit buying them. Newer ones may be better but I bought enough Winchester primers back before the Pandemic to last me so I don't need any more. Personally I wouldn't buy CCIs ever again.

I had the same impression years ago, so I changed to Federal rifle and pistol primers and Winchester shotgun primers. I think over the years the problem with CCIs, if there was one, may have gone away. I’ve been using a few CCIs now, since it is more or less a use whatever you can get environment and I don’t have trouble with them like I once did.