first 9mm plated test

[Nevada Ed]

Took the chrony and bullets over to the son-in-laws house and we talked where to shoot and Guage's dad, Todd said he knew of a place near by.
Only 4 miles out but the back roads were wet and still snow covered and was chewed up from other traffic, making for some slipping and sliding.
Todd brought a table and some tarps but the area was a mess so we went for just chrony work instead of walking back and forth in the mud for targets..... which would make mama happy.

115gr plated were not too bad and the loads posted:
Bullseye .... 1037
Red Dot .... 1073
w 231 ........1111
Green Dot .. 1079
Unique ....... 1212 (medium load.. surprised at fps )
SR4756 ...... 1103 .......... trying for a 1050 average on all loads.

124gr all loads at 4.5grs
Bullseye........ 1114
Red Dot........ 1145
w 231 .......... 1075
Green .......... 1097

At least I have some data to work on now. All cases ejected and
no malfunctions. Will try a little longer oal on the next test.

Later.

 

[rwsmith]

Thanks...

Thanks for the report. I've avoided plated bullets like the plague, but after rethinking, I will probably go that way. I was mistaken, ok?

 

[novalty]

Appreciate the data Nevada Ed, but I gotsta know where these those tapered bullets I've heard so much about?

 

[S&W HE]

Thanks for the information Nevada Ed.

I don't often shoot a 9mm but a good friend of mine does so I loaded 100 115 gr Xtreme Plated RN bullets with 4.4 grains of Red Dot and WSP primers in R-P cases. The results were impressive... a ragged hole at 15 yards using my friends little XD. (I'd forgotten how little a 9mm kicks and was quite surprised at the group it shot.)

 

[Nevada Ed]

What tapered bullets ?

I did not hear about those.........

 

[OKFC05]

Will try a little longer oal on the next test.

What OAL did you use on this batch? Not listed.

Would have been interested in accuracy, but mud, sure....We got a batch of freezing rain and rain, and I haven't been to the range in a week. Going into withdrawal..

 

[blujax01]

.. I was mistaken, ok?

That has happened to me once...or twice.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I used the oal from the Nosler site...............

I think they are a "Fit all" length and not ment for accuracy.
I noticed lots of todays ammo is at the "Short" end of the settings.

I think the X-long oal are now just a "Custom" setting by reloaders...............looking for accuracy out of "Their pistols".

 

[Nevada Ed]

12/28/13.....
Noticed something from my old 1983 and this year loading data.............. (no 147gr )

Of all the bullets loaded from the 95gr to the 125gr Speer
weather a HP or a FMJ.............

Did any of you seat a bullet deeper than .22" below the case rim ?
Since there is always lots of OAL for bullets , I just wondered if this might be the "Holy Grail" for the maximum depth of bullets vs powders?

However if the 147 seats deeper, then all bets are off and I will have to rethink things over and get back to the drawing boards !!

 

[SuperMan]

...not sure why all the reservations about plated bullets... Have been using them since they came out and accuracy has been excellent to say the least.

Have not loaded any in 9mm but have loaded well over 50K in .38 Super... Velocity with 100 grain Berry's was in the 1400 fps and 124s in the 1200s.

Marine Corps Qualification Course that runs out to 25 yards with 124 Berry's...





100 grain Berry's at 10 yards...





100 grain Berrys at 15 yards...












As to seating depth...just never worried about it... In a semi-auto looking for feeding reliability first. Once the seating depth is found then vary the powder charge to get the velocity wanted...

Reloading manuals are a guide not a Bible...

Bob

 

[Fla_Sun]

"Reloading manuals are a guide not a Bible..."

Well said Superman. plated bullets can be conquered now days using your brain and maybe some help with certain software.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Think you guys are right!

I noticed something weird............
2005 Alliant edition has a "Minimum OAL" of a 124gr FMJ at.......1.15"

The Hodgdon internet has a Sierra 124 FMJ with a OAL at..........1.09"

1. What's with that ??

2. Most company ammo now comes with the FMJ at 1.12" as a fit all ammo for generally all pistols.

I have read that 115gr "Ball Ammo" can be at 1.169". Does this maximum length for this short bullet give it enough seating depth for good enough support?

I am sort of confused...............

 

[125JHP]

I generally put the bullet in the case about .25" (give or take .05") and let the nose fall where it may. As long as it feeds reliably I don't worry about it as there are a wide range of nose designs that will vary the OAL

 

[Bkreutz]

Think you guys are right!

I noticed something weird............
2005 Alliant edition has a "Minimum OAL" of a 124gr FMJ at.......1.15"

The Hodgdon internet has a Sierra 124 FMJ with a OAL at..........1.09"

1. What's with that ??

2. Most company ammo now comes with the FMJ at 1.12" as a fit all ammo for generally all pistols.

I have read that 115gr "Ball Ammo" can be at 1.169". Does this maximum length for this short bullet give it enough seating depth for good enough support?

I am sort of confused...............

The minimum OAL is determined by the powder. Loading deeper (shorter) than minimums can create an excess pressure problem. That's why it's important to find a recipe that lists your specific bullet and powder rather than using just the weight of the bullet as the only criteria for reloading data.

 

[webfarmer]

...not sure why all the reservations about plated bullets... Have been using them since they came out and accuracy has been excellent to say the least.

Bob

I agree with Bob. Been using RMR plated .45 ACP (230 grain RN) and 9MM (115 Grain RN) bullets and enjoy excellent accuracy with reduced shooting costs to boot. Got into IDPA practice shooting and the plated bullets - RMR anyway - have excelled at jackets velocities. Good luck!

 

[tlay]

A 115 gr. lead bullet will be a different length than a 115 gr. plated bullet. I have found as much as 30 thousands difference in length of 115 gr. bullets. If you were to put them all to the same OAL then you could have some over pressure problems. Go by the min. OAL that the recipe calls for for the best match of your bullet. You can go longer in length but you will usually loose f.p.s.

 

[fla_gun]

A 115 gr. lead bullet will be a different length than a 115 gr. plated bullet. I have found as much as 30 thousands difference in length of 115 gr. bullets. If you were to put them all to the same OAL then you could have some over pressure problems. Go by the min. OAL that the recipe calls for for the best match of your bullet. You can go longer in length but you will usually loose f.p.s.

Quickload will give you the measurements of a certain manufacturers bullet. Compare and adjust as needed. Or you can just guess.

 

[blujax01]

Quickload software is $152.99 and not available for Mac.

Hornady, Speer, Sierra and other manuals give dimensions of their bullets and I can compare and adjust as needed from that data without guessing.

No doubt Quickload may be cool but I'll get along fine without it, thanks.

 

[fla_gun]

Quickload software is $152.99 and not available for Mac.

Hornady, Speer, Sierra and other manuals give dimensions of their bullets and I can compare and adjust as needed from that data without guessing.

No doubt Quickload may be cool but I'll get along fine without it, thanks.

Lets see, I just checked only 2 of my latest manuals (Hornady 9th and and aging Speer 14th). I got BCC, sectional density and ballistic coefficient but not one had the bullet length. I don't think I even need to look at the others. Please enlighten me sir?

 

[blujax01]

You know, you 're right. I thought I could deduce the bullet length by the diagrams in the upper corner of the pages but that's only for the dimensions of the cases.

I suppose I'll have to keep assuming that a plated HP 124gr. is "close enough" to a jacketed HP 124gr. length-wise to work up my loads from about the same starting point.

Mea Culpa

 

[forestswin]

You know, you 're right. I thought I could deduce the bullet length by the diagrams in the upper corner of the pages but that's only for the dimensions of the cases.

I suppose I'll have to keep assuming that a plated HP 124gr. is "close enough" to a jacketed HP 124gr. length-wise to work up my loads from about the same starting point.

Mea Culpa

Bluejax
Just measure the bullets with your caliper and use case length from the book or SAMMI diagrams

 

[Nevada Ed]

I was messing around with what I thought was enough case support for the little 115gr RN plated bullet.

Looked up the thickness of a dime: .053 .....penny .061 and nickel .076".

Figured the minimum is 3 dimes at +/- .16" and good support with 3 pennies at .18" +/-. Just for kicks the 38 special 125gr Speer Gold Dot will work with 3 nickels at .228" w/crimp.

A 115gr 9mm with 2 nickels at .152" does not look like enough support for the "Ball type" at 1.15 oal. so 1.14" oal will be my maximum length for this bullet..... 1.12" has plenty of support at .18" of bullet base inside the case.

I will be loading some maximum 9mm standard loads soon and post what the 1.14" oal length turns out. Son-in-law has five light target loads to put on paper that I gave him at Christmas in 115 and 124gr RN. Will post pictures when I get the target back.

later.

 

[fla_gun]

You know, you 're right. I thought I could deduce the bullet length by the diagrams in the upper corner of the pages but that's only for the dimensions of the cases.

I suppose I'll have to keep assuming that a plated HP 124gr. is "close enough" to a jacketed HP 124gr. length-wise to work up my loads from about the same starting point.

Mea Culpa

Or just ask someone with Quick load and they could tell you.
That's what I did for a lng time before my source told me to get my own copy.

 

[NevadaBob]

Nevada Ed...Were you shooting out off of Lemmon Valley & Chickadee on BLM property? The description of the road with snow sounds like it. I go out there on Saturdays. I just got a chrono and will be trying that out soon.

 

[blujax01]

Bluejax
Just measure the bullets with your caliper and use case length from the book or SAMMI diagrams

Sure, that'll work and has been a standard way to calculate bullet seating depth for many years. But the debate here seems to be centering around the difference the thickness of the plating makes in the overall scheme of things.

Actually, it's a non-starter as far as how things really work on my bench as opposed to theory. (And I like do Ed's "Spare Change" gauges!). But it's a fun discussion anyway.

 

[SuperMan]

To find your max LOA several things need to be considered...

1) Magazine length maximum

2) Ojive maximum

3) Amount of bullet shank needed in the case to keep the bullet from bending out of line during feeding

4) Ejection port opening

#1 is easy...most 9mm magazines are within a couple of thousandths so most any commercial 9mm ammo will work.

#2 To find this length take the barrel out of the handgun and put a bullet into a case with just enough of the shank in the case to hold it in place. Make sure that the case mouth bell has been smoothed out then drop the round down into the chamber. More than likely with most bullets the base of the case will stick up above the barrel hood. Now keep seating the bullet deeper and deeper till the base of the case is even with the barrel hood. Now your round should be properly headspaced on the case mouth. You will need to shorten the round a couple of thousands to make sure all bullets clear the rifling.

Now the question becomes if this is the max length for this bullet barrel combination, does it exceed the max length of the magazine. If it does than this length is moot and one then will have to shorten the round so this particular bullet will fit into the magazine.

#3 Now that you have #1 and #2 lengths determined will the bullet nose stay centered when worked through the action. With the slide back and loaded magazine in drop the side and then carefully pull the slide back to get the round out. This will also answer #4.... If the complete round will not eject from the ejection port then it will have to be shortened. If it will then examine the round to see if the bullet stayed centered in the case....

All 9mm 125 grain JHPs are not the same. A Sierra has a very long shank and sharp ojive. Load it to the same max LOA as a Hornady XTP and you will have a bullet stuck into the rifling....

Bob

 

[Nevada Ed]

Superman.......thanks, logged that info.

Bob;
He shoots north of Golden Valley, where they live.
Signs posted to the off road area used for lots of outdoor things.
Just have to find a place that looks and feels safe from the other shooters.

Was that a "Ricochet" ?? !!

 

[NevadaBob]

Nevada Ed...Sounds like the same spot. I love the rugged road, ruts and all. Most cars wouldn't dare go out there.

 

[mscampbell2734]

Just be aware not all plated bullets are created equal. Some WILL fly apart if driven too hard. I've scored IDPA cardboard targets and found strips of plating material embedded in the cardboard because the bullet was driven too hard and the plating came off.

 

[Nevada Ed]

OAL with spare change.

Here is a picture of a 115gr 9mm ..........
and a fired 125gr 38 spl...........

With my dimes, pennies and nickels....
as mentioned dime: .053, penny: .061, nickel: .076"
that comes to .159" ( .16 ) , .183" and , .228" on the .38 cal.