First ever bullet pulled

petemacmahon

petemacmahon

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I've been playing with two S&W 44 mags this fall, trying to decide which one get's the nod for Bear & Deer season here in PA. My very last trip to the range was today and I was going to make my choice.

Every day field & deer load will be 18.4 grains of 2400 under a locally cast 240 LSWC. The Bear load will be 24 grains of H110 under a LeadHead Kieth style 250 LSWC.

The Bear load is loaded one up on a Hornady Lock-N-Load press. The crimp is a REALLY HEAVY roll crimp.

The 240s were loaded up on my Dillon RL550B using the same tool head I've used for nigh on 15 years. When I started loading with this tool head the only 44 mag I had was a Ruger Redhawk(lots more mass).

So, today I'm out shooting my light weight 629-4 mountain gun with it's pencil barrel and low-and-behold, it pulls one of the 240 grain bullets and stops up rotation. The 29-3 with a 6 inch standard barrel did no such thing. And neither of them pulled the much harsher 250s, I guess cause of the heavier crimp.

When I cleared the case, the 2400 poured all over the cylinder and behind the star........................what a mess! I'm hoping it's just that jam behind the start this is stopping the cylinder from re-engaging. I just packed it up and left the range as I had no time to tinker with it.

The 29-3 will be going afield on Saturday for Bear!

I wonder if I should run the 240s through the Lock-N-Load crimp die to tighten them up? Will that change pressure and POI? Right now, both are hitting to the same point of aim.

Live and learn.
 
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Equal brass length = same crimp on all cases. Contrary to internet rumor, 44 mag cases grow in length when using stout loads and full length resizing.

EDIT: My 44 mag brass is trimmed in the FIRED condition to 1.245" (0.020" less than minimum trim length after resizing). I do not deburr the case mouth. Resizing knocks off the outside burr, belling the case mouth knocks off the inside burr, and I have a sharp square edge to hold the bullet in the case. I use a roll crimp at the crimp groove on the cast bullet. My junk range scrap bullets with home made bullet lube have never leaded any handgun barrels that I own.

I don't argue or defend what works for me.
 
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Also contrary to internet myth a heavy crimp will have no measurable effect on pressure. According to the Lee Manual and a few confirming sources on the internet the pressure required to release the bullet from a crimp is between 100 and 200 psi. Do you really think that a couple of hundred psi matters when the operating pressure exceeds 30 thousand psi?
 
Make sure that you're not over expanding your brass. A tight grip on
the bullet base also helps keep the bullet from moving forward from
recoil.
 
Mad_Charlie said:
What do you consider correct "neck tension" to be?
Click to expand...

The bullet should be an interference fit in the brass, and the neck should be expanded just enough to seat without shaving. A heavy crimp mouth should touch the bullet at the bottom of the cannelure. Overcrimping can push the case down, bulging it and loosening the neck.
 
scooter123 said:
Also contrary to internet myth a heavy crimp will have no measurable effect on pressure. According to the Lee Manual and a few confirming sources on the internet the pressure required to release the bullet from a crimp is between 100 and 200 psi. Do you really think that a couple of hundred psi matters when the operating pressure exceeds 30 thousand psi?
Click to expand...

No. I was drawing on the analogy of rifle bullets seated out to the lands causing higher pressures. In hind sight, a silly analogy! I'll have to see if that is in my 15 year old Lee red book. Thanks.
 
Yep, neck tension holds the bullet in place in many instances, but .44 Magnum ain't one of them. I have been reloading .44 Magnum for 25+ years for 5 different guns and they all need a good roll crimp at minimum. I don't have enough information of crimp affecting pressure, not owning any pressure testing equipment, (and I wouldn't give much credence to a Lee Manual, nor internet experts), but in my limited experience I believe crimp does affect accuracy (a heavy roll or profile crimp shoots better in my 3 revolvers than a light roll or no crimp). My "testing" has lead me to using a Redding Profile crimp die on all my .44 Magnum loads (99% cast lead) and my .357 Magnum loads (also all cast lead bullets).
 
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I have also found that a good crimp can be an essential element to good accuracy, especially with H110. I believe that the reason for the improvement is that a heavy crimp acts to delay the release of the bullet long enough to get the powder ignition process fully initiated.
 
No one is suggesting that case neck tension alone is sufficient to
prevent bullet creep in 44 magnum loads. I've been handloading the
44 mag since 1973 when I bought my three screw Super Blackhawk
which I still have. All information I have ever seen on reloading for
the 44 stresses the need for a combination of good case neck tension
and a very heavy crimp. Winchester repeatedly stated in their manuals
that 296 loads should have a very heavy crimp.
 
OKFC05 said:
The bullet should be an interference fit in the brass, and the neck should be expanded just enough to seat without shaving. A heavy crimp mouth should touch the bullet at the bottom of the cannelure. Overcrimping can push the case down, bulging it and loosening the neck.
Click to expand...

Yes, after 40 yrs and uncountable 44mag/45 Colt rounds loaded with cast, I am aware of this...

What I wanted to know is what other experienced handloaders consider to be an acceptable or desirable "interference" fit, for example, my stock RCBS expander plug gives me .003 interference with a .452 bullet in 45 colt, with Starline cases.

I have made a couple of custom expander plugs to vary this by .001 +/- to compensate for different cases and alloys and to experiment with different interference fits. I find the .003 works well with hard cast and heavy loads while .001 does well with soft lead target loads. Heavy crimp for heavy loads, lighter for target. :cool:

I very seldom shoot jacketed bullets. :eek:
 
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What I wanted to know is what other experienced handloaders consider to be an acceptable or desirable "interference" fit, for example, my stock RCBS expander plug gives me .003 interference
Click to expand...

I too use the stock RCBS expander and have not found a need to go less, BUT I make it a point not to try to load soft swaged WC in heavy military .38 brass with this tight a fit. I just use thinner cases, and they seen to shoot OK.
Aside from .38, I seldom shoot soft lead bullets.
 
No luck & Bad luck!

Bear was a bust on Saturday. The only living creature I saw in the woods of McKean County PA was other humans and some Chickadees. :(

Worse still. I guess like an idiot that day on the range, I cleared bullet stuck in the cylinder of the 629-4 by sitting the edge of the cylinder on the shooting bench, sticking a bit driver into the back of the cylinder and punching it out the front with my hand. Well, maybe I hit the butt of the gun too, I can't recall. But after I got it home and cleaned all the unburnt powder out of the nooks and crannies, the cylinder refuses to close! I bent the darn crane/yoke?! (I always called it the crane, but a bit of research says that Colt calls it the crane, but S&W calls it the yoke) AGH.............................. more living and learning. I really feel like an dolt.
 
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