First gun - Compact 4" vs Shield 9mm?

[ABMI]

I've got the 1.0 9mm Shield, 45 Shield & the 2.0 3.6" Compact. I personally carry the 45 most & shoot the 45 best. But the 9mm is a tack driver also, my 3.6 is the least accurate and when carried feels like you're carrying a gun with the added weight. I really like the 3.6 even though it has a cracked slide, it has a nice feel & a size that's not a lot bigger than the 45 but is heavier with 16 rounds in it. That being said I don't recommend the 45 shield but wouldn't hesitate to recommend the 9mm shield. It's the easiest to conceal & I used to carry both mags so I felt like I had plenty of firepower. I have a king tuck for the 3.6 & it works great but the 9mm shield is nicer to carry. I actually bought the 3.6 for a house gun but also carry it on occasion. Despite the cracked slide it's still a very nice gun.

 

[Dave Lively]

Speer lawman? More mall ninja bs.

Buy what is on sale. It all goes BANG. You can find 9mm for 20 cents a round or less.

Including Speer Lawman. Less than 20 cents a round including shipping when you order from sgammo. Not sure why buying reasonably priced brass case ammo from a reliable and respected manufacturer makes me a "mall ninja". Are all the really cool kids shooting the cheapest steel case Russian stuff they can find these days?

I only buy brass case ammo but am not picky about the brand. Usually that ends up being Blazer brass or Lawman and both run fine.

 

[Mystery]

Shot bunch of handguns... first time 9mm shooting

I shot 6 guns today.
Until today, I only had shot 22lr so it was new experience.
Recoil is pretty strong compared to 22lr.
I didn't even feel 22lr pushing me but 9mm just slaps the palm.
It was much louder in comparison to 22lr.
I only had foam plugs with 22lr before and it wasn't as loud as 9mm with double protection, Howard Leight Impact sport and foam ear plugs.
It worked great though, it was loud but no ringing.

I also felt much pressure that was non existent with 22lr.
BTW, loading the magazine was hard for the thumbs.
They all were very stiff except for the Sig and Walther.

I've attached today's 9mm shootout and my first ever 22lr targets, both at 7 yards.
You can see 22lr was spot on but 9mm is terrible. I'm shooting all lower left.
Specially, after the Glock 19, my aim was terrible as it blistered my thumb knuckle and anticipation of the recoil.

1. M&P 2.0 Compact 4": Top left on the target
   - It feels great in hand except the texture feels like sand paper.
   
2. Glock 19: Top right on the target
   - It feels good but blocky. However, it has a lot of recoil compared to M&P. The glock's recoil pushed the back on my thumb knuckle and blistered it in just few shots.
   It probably is my hand position but still, none of the others did that.
3. M&P 2.0 Shield: Down left on the target
   - Feels okay, just little thin.
   If I get it, I definitely need to add a rubber grip to increase the width.
   My palm is boney so need thicker grip to fill the gap.
4. Sig P365: Middle on the target
   - This was small gun but felt pretty good in the hands.
   I don't think I can shoot a box with this (or any subcompact) though.
   The recoil was manageable for few magazines but hand becomes sloppy afterwards.
5. HK VP9: Down right on the target
   - This one felt the best in my hands. This means I really like wide and long grip guns.
6. Walther CCP: Top middle empty area on the target
   - This single stack felt much better than shield. I think I can live with this one. Hmm...

I wanted to try a CZ and compact Sig but they were all rented out.
However, M&P and VP9 are top two in double stack and Walther CCP and Shield are top two in single stack from today's session.

In comparison, below is my M&P 22lr target, from my very first short in my life.
I shot great when I shot the very first time and it went downhill from there.

Maybe I should stick with 22lr .

 

[Smoke]

What is this "recoil" that you speak of?

 

[Chief Wiggums]

....... $300 while the 4" are at $400.
Any thoughts on

honestly....
I will suggest taking that $300-$400 and buying a series of classes that promotes proper safety and handling.

Any reputable instructor will have a gun that you can use or rent for a very small fee during the classes.

At that you can decide upon your next steps.

Please report back and let us know how everything works out
(BTW: when you are ready , buy the M&P 2.0 compact 9mm)

 

[Chief Wiggums]

What about CCI Blazer Brass 115Gr? is that good ammo?
It's on sale at psa.

CCI Blazer 115Gr is absolutely fine range ammo.
Ive been using it for years.
usually price at about .18 .19 per round

 

[roadking2007]

Nice summary. I was out shooting a few 9mm’s yesterday, too. All 4” barrel sizes, as I’ve determined that’s a good size and mass for my first firearm. The smaller ones have a lot more recoil and are harder to keep on target for this beginner.

I have the same impression of the M&P 2.0 Compact 4”. I shot it reasonable well. It had a nice feel in my hands. And it handled recoil well. The curved trigger travelled smoothly. But I didn’t like the gritty texture of the grip at all. Seems like a silly thing to reject a gun on, but I did. If I were shooting that gun a lot, it would definitely bug me.

Next was the Walther PPQ. Since you liked the V9, you should shoot this one too. This had been my leading candidate. Excellent trigger. Nice grip texture. Easy to keep on target. Smooth shooter. It felt like a larger gun, size wise (I didn’t measure) than the M&P but the recoil was a bit more. I found myself wrapping my non shooting pointer finger around the front of the concave trigger guard, actually using it to better stabilize the gun. I know wrapping that finger around the guard is an old shooting style. But it felt like I was using the guard as a crutch and developing a bad habit there. However, I shot the PPQ really well and it feels good in the hands. That’s why it was my leading contender.

I ended with the VP9. Probably my third time shooting it and the PPQ and they have been my favorites. As good as the PPQ felt in my hands, the V9 felt like it just “belonged” there. The grip size, shape, texture is perfect for me. It’s slightly heavier and that increased mass helps manage recoil better than the PPQ. Very smooth trigger. And I like the paddle releases and the stock fluorescent sights.

So guess which one I’m going to get? Lol. All three are great guns. And I wouldn’t mind owning any of them. In my research, I also shot a Glock 17 (which I hated), a P365 (way too small for me), a Shield 2.0 (liked it a lot, but since it’s smaller, was harder to maintain accuracy. Practice with it would fix that) and a Beretta 92FX (.40 cal - just for fun. Not considering a .40 right now). I know there are many more I could have tried. But these 9mm’s were recommended by my instructor, so it was a good sampling.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Dave Lively]

[*]Glock 19: Top right on the target
- It feels good but blocky. However, it has a lot of recoil compared to M&P. The glock's recoil pushed the back on my thumb knuckle and blistered it in just few shots.
It probably is my hand position but still, none of the others did that.

I have the same problem with double stack Glocks. Over the past 35 years I have shot a lot of different handguns and the only one I had to put a Bandaid on before shooting was my Glock 19. Same spot you described, knuckle of my right hand thumb. My final solution was a M&P compact.

Are you by any chance on the skinny side? I am about 6 feet tall and currently weigh about 170 pounds. When I first started shooting in my early 20s I was about 240 and that went up to about 270. It was after I lost weight nearly 20 years ago I started to have problems with double stack Glocks. The extra meat on my hands cushioned my thumb knuckle and kind of acted like a built in shooting glove. At 59 my skin is not as strong as it was at 25 but I think skinny hands and blocky Glock grips are the real problem.

While the M&P feels a lot better in my hand I don't really shoot it any better than the Glock.

ETA: If the only thing you don't like about the M&P is the rough texture you can take the edge off with some fine grit sandpaper. Although the range you are at might frown on your "fixing" their rental gun I am still trying to decide if I want to do that or not on my M&P.

 

[Not Getting Any Younger]

Lots of good advice on this thread (and a bit of 'mud-slinging' too!).

My advice is to buy a pistol that fits your hand and feels good.
Then PRACTICE and work on your trigger-control which will improve your accuracy.
That will make you a better shooter.
Then if you get a smaller pistol, you can build on your fundamental skill-set.


I wanted to mention a few things about safeties:

My first semi-auto pistol (non-.22LR) was a H&K USP45.
I bought it in 1996 when we didn't have as many choices as we do now.
I wanted .45acp and I wanted a safety! I liked the feel of a 1911. I really liked the Sig P220, but the lack of a safety scared me away from it, so I went with the USP variant 1 (which has a safety/decocker). It's a little bit blocky in my hand against my thumb, but shooting it two-handed solves that problem. It has a positive safety that I can't 'accidentally' put 'on'. Now that I have experience, I have a Sig P229 and am very comfortable with the double action/single action/no safety that is has.

My 45 Shield has a safety. I find it easy to take 'off', but harder to put 'on'.
I REALLY like it and am confident that my grip will never accidentally put the safety 'on'.

I find all the double-stack M&P 'paddle' safeties too easy to 'accidentally' put 'on'.
I will go non-safety when I buy one -- I'm leaning towards the 3.6" 2.0 Compact.

So put those pistols in your hand and think about how easy it is to put the safety 'on' and if it might be a problem - choose one that has a positive safety. As you become more experienced, you may find that a safety is less important to you. If the pistol is a home defense gun, without a safety, you can store it with the chamber unloaded as a safety measure. For a carry gun an empty chamber is a handicap --- so I think you should be thinking about a 1st gun and then get one specifically to carry. The holster(s) you choose will add the the safety of the gun by covering the trigger.


Also, If you go with the 4" over the 3.6" and want to use it for home defense, a shorter barrel will usually not extend beyond a weapon light.
A longer barrel is better for a home defense gun.


And lastly, buy yourself a Maglula magazine loader. You'll be glad you did!

 

[Flyingfool]

Discussion of use of Blazer brass ammo.

Great ammo. I found it pretty clean acually. Great price too.

One caution I did not see mentioned is that Blazer brass on the box itself warning is that it is NOT to be uses on ported guns! Therefore it should NOT be used on the performance center ported M&P weapons.

I think this is due to the thin layer of brass on the bullet and some of that can be “shaved off” and fly oit of the ports!

 

[Not Getting Any Younger]

Forgot to mention that a lot of the choices mentioned - Walthers, H&K, the double-stack M&Ps - have interchangable grip panels, but usually they have the 'medium' size on the gun when you hold it in the store. I will probably be install the smallest size when I buy the 3.6" compact. I LOVE the grip of my 45 Shield!, and the 'small' grip panels will be the closest to that when I get the double-stack.

So keep that in mind as you shop around.

 

[dla]

Glock 19: T The glock's recoil pushed the back on my thumb knuckle and blistered it in just few shots.
It probably is my hand position

Your grip is wrong. Hard to describe in writing (I'm too lazy), but watch some YT videos or get an experienced shooter to help you. Simple change makes all the difference.

 

[Mystery]

Your grip is wrong. Hard to describe in writing (I'm too lazy), but watch some YT videos or get an experienced shooter to help you. Simple change makes all the difference.

I'm pretty sure it is.
It's just that other guns didn't hit my knuckles.
Maybe the angle of grip raised my knuckle on the glock.

 

[Flyingfool]

Anothwr post nuat showed that S&W has new models.

They now offer a 4 inch shield!

This could add the weight and longer sight radius to reduce felt recoil. If desired, the ported barrel may be a choice to further reduce muzzle flip.

This MAY be the compromise the OP is seeking. Bigger larger heavier gun than the shield, but smaller and lighter and easier to carry than the compact.

Regarding the 2.0 texture. I thiught initially that the texture would be too aggressive. But the 1.0 grip texture was too slippery for me, and multiple shots with the lighter gun I think moves slightly in my hands, and that was part of the reason for less accuracy than the compact. With the 2.0 grip texture. That thing is loke glue! It doesn’t move an iota when shooting. So I now prefer the more aggressive texture now. Since it doesn’t move, there is no abrasion effect. At least not for me.

I have smaller and since I do a desk job, pretty “soft” hands and the 2.0 texture does nothing to my hands. Even after range sessions with farily rapid multiple shots covering 200 rounds or so in an hour.

Also I think the 1.0 compact back straps will fit on the 2.0 grip. So approximately half of the 2.0 texture could be replaced with the less aggressive texture. This might offer some folks the best combination for enough grip to maintain no slip, while being less aggressive and more comfortable for them.

 

[Mystery]

The security 9 is a very good "glock 19 sized" pistol. Excellent value. The clerk is either a dweeb or he has an agenda.
On sale, I have seen Security 9's go for $280. I would definitely buy a Security 9 over an M&P 2.0 Compact 9mm based on price.

I don't remember now.
I thought it was Ruger security 9 but it could be Remington 9mm (RP9), definitely one of those two.
I looked at too many guns.

 

[Mystery]

I have the same problem with double stack Glocks. Over the past 35 years I have shot a lot of different handguns and the only one I had to put a Bandaid on before shooting was my Glock 19. Same spot you described, knuckle of my right hand thumb. My final solution was a M&P compact.

Are you by any chance on the skinny side? ...

I'm not skinny. Wife says to loose weight constantly.
My hands are also pretty big but bony.
Palm is pretty flat so need a grip to fill the gap.

 

[thesmithiz]

For what it's worth. First of all if you ask for opinions on a forum that's what you get, opinions, not fact or expertise. Every person is different from the next and what fits your hand and body is what you should use. You will learn to shoot any gun well that you're comfortable holding in a ready to shoot hold. You will wear any gun you are comfortable wearing and ultimately shooting; these are the two most valuable opinions because they are yours based on your experience. Experience is another topic and only worth the value you put into hearing it. I own a 1st gen Shield 9mm that I shoot well and carry no issue at all. I also have a BG 380, its very weird, yes weird, to shoot but I have learned to shoot it well and only carry when walking/running or cycling. Otherwise have a full size M&P 2.0 9mm in my night stand and shoot it well, and i can conceal it. I also have a Sig P320C 9mm and shoot it great, yes great, it fits my hand real nice and I can conceal it. There are more but that's enough of my experience for here. What I do, and not saying you should but it's my experience, is shoot them all till you shoot them well and then, well....keep shooting them. I look at it this way, odds are pretty good the person that wants to do bad things and has a gun to do even more bad things to you...well I am guessing that he isn't at the range learning to shoot well so in my case if I shoot at least well that might be good enough and certainly better than no gun versus his gun. With any kind of luck he is really cool and holds his sideways too!

 

[MJFlores]

As a new shooter..first and foremost, welcome to a lifelong hobby that you'll find very rewarding...and supportive in the team of people you'll likely come to meet and know. With that said...be sure not to be "diving in" head first...this is a hobby that is worth going slow in, savor the moments and nuances...even the smells. Many years later, the smell of a particular powder or cleaning solvent will bring you back to the beginning. So, build the foundation by taking a safety course. Often times you can take one for free...and they're actually fun to attend. Some shops will put them on for free...and give you a discount toward your first purchase. Just be sure the instructor is NRA certified. Next, the Shield is great gun...a little tricky to shoot if it's your first but I recently bought one and consider it a great self defence concealment gun as well as a nice range gun. In my definition of range gun, it's a gun that you can take to the range and just have fun...hitting targets close and at distance and not get frustrated. This is supposed to be fun!! Now, for any new shooter interested in hand guns I recommend they buy an inexpensive .22 pistol. They're versatile, inexpensive to buy and shoot, and will teach you about grip, trigger control, follow through, and accuracy. Since they are cheap to shoot...you'll shoot more often which is so important. Two of the guns I shoot the most often are a Sig 1911-22 and a Henry lever action .22 rifle. I'm lucky enough to have my own range so I shoot almost every day unless there's a storm going on. Once you're proficient with that .22, try a few rental guns at a range. Take your time to try a few so you know what suits you...we're all different and so are guns.

 

[Mystery]

Thanks all.

@mjflores,
I've been thinking of getting .22 as well to start with.
Let's see how it goes.

 

[Smoke]

I look at it this way, odds are pretty good the person that wants to do bad things and has a gun to do even more bad things to you...well I am guessing that he isn't at the range learning to shoot well

I wouldn't bet on it. I would bet that even if it is your first robbery it's not his and you're not the first person who ever pointed a gun at him.

I'd much rather overestimate my opponent and be wrong than underestimate and be wrong