First Model Single Shot

[ccbrd]

Hello,

I'm new to the forum and need advice/help on the following.

A friend owns this handgun & book and has asked me to help him value & perhaps sell both.

Considering its age, condition & rarity we're seeking expert advice.

*****

Smith & Wesson First Model Single Shot
38 Caliber (160 manufactured)
Serial #14xxx

*****

The owner has fired the gun one (1) time, one (1) cartridge.

Its condition appears as new and the bore is mirror.

I'll attach photos (5) for your review & comment.

Thanks in advance for your advice/help.

CB

 

[model3sw]

To assure it is "the" one you're suggesting, it is necessary to verify it was shipped from the factory in .38 Calilber. It must be a matching barrel to the frame and original finish (same number should also be "scribed" into the underside of the right grip).

You must have the same number on the barrel, the barrel latch and the frame, and IIRC the underside of the extractor. Do all the numbers match ? Also, very carefully remove the grips with the correct hollow ground, proper fit, screwdriver. Check the left side of the frame under the grips. Please, attach another few photos, one of the left side of the grips frame (with the grips removed) and a close up, sharp focus picture of the barrel stamp.

The most desirable 1891 if, of course, the a multi-caliber, multi-barrel, cased set that are rarely found. Next is the individual single shots in .32 and / or .38 with some of the less often found barrel lengths being more desirable. Our resident member-expert on these is "OPOEFC" ( Ed, jump in to correct / amend my post )

About 10-15 years ago the S&W factory sold off all its old vintage / antique parts. The member / gunsmith that purchased the parts made some of the less seen parts and barrel sets for the 1891s available to members.

At that time, I ordered (as did other collectors) several, various caliber, various barrel length, various finish barrels for my 1891s that I could have not otherwise found. All the barrels old barrels I ordered came numbered (factory numbers ) and were absolutely perfect. Thus, the seldom seen barrel lengths, calibers and finishes were readily available for a time and IIRC they were a "sell out".

It is necessary to verify all SNs match and the finish is original. Once verified of SN match and original finish, you'd have a nice 1891 there.

I don't think you'd have to look outside the forum to find an interested buyer for that one (including me) if correct.

Good luck, hoping it all matches.

 

[JSR III]

Welcome to the forum.

That is a very nice looking gun. Without seeing it close up it is extremely hard to tell if the gun has been refinished which would kill collector value. We are always a little suspicious when a gun of this vintage appears to be almost new looking. Unless babied and cared for all its life, metal, especially metal exposed to black or smokeless powder just doesn't stay new looking.

When guns like this were made, they weren't really purchased for collecting but were bought to shoot. Guns that were shot will typically show signs of that use.

Perhaps you could supply some more close up photos from all angles especially the inside with the gun open. The back of the barrel and the recoil plate will show if the gun was used much.

If not refinished, you have a truly beautiful specimen that has withstood the ravages of time.

 

[rct269]

As noted, originality of finish and configuration is of uppermost consideration. The originality of the finish can be determined by examination. The originality of the configuration can be determined by matching numbers, AND a "factory letter".

As you likely already know (from THE book), these pistols were made with 6, 8, and 10" barrels. By observation (of the .22 caliber version) the most common is most certainly the 10", followed by the 8"---then the 6". I suspect (but do not know) the same will hold true for the .38's.

Again, as you likely already know, the serial numbers (of most) of the 1st Models are listed in THE book. If yours is there, so much the better; but a letter is a REQUIREMENT to fetch top dollar.

So how much is top dollar? I reckon it's about the same as how high is up? I once offered to trade a 95% K-32 1st Model valued at $10,000 (at the time---and BOTH the condition and then value were determined by David Carroll) for a (New In Box) 6" 2nd Model SS. (I suspect the value of a 6" 2nd and your gun are close to the same.) There was NO response to my offer!!! Now, aside from the staggering bad manners, there seems to have been a message there for me----something along the lines of "Stick it in your ear!!" I had to settle for removing the cretin from my Christmas card list.

Ralph Tremaine

And as an (troubling) aside, I have an 8" .32 caliber SS. It letters as a 10" .22. I have a NM #3 Target chambered in "38 WINCHESTER CTG"---which is clearly impossible. (Check any of the books for confirmation.) It letters as a mystery gun. They believe it to be a special order for a single gun, but they have no idea what the caliber is. Bottom Line: The all important factory letter may not help you a bit. The letters are constructed from the factory records. The factory records were constructed by human beings. Sometimes "stuff" happens. Some of the "stuff" is bad----and some of it is worse!!

 

[ccbrd]

model3sw & JSR III,

Thanks for your replies, info, et al.

Here are further details regarding the Smith & Wesson First Model.

The owner tells me he has owned the gun for 20+ years and that when purchased he was told by the seller it had belonged to a family member that had a work relationship with Smith & Wesson.

The owner has no paperwork to verify this, only verbal.

As to its condition, matching serial numbers, amount of use, et al, how could the owner have the gun evaluated by an expert of your choosing (or perhaps yourselves) to verify/answer your questions/concerns?

Would it be possible to put you folks together with him or perhaps with an intermediary to arrange for/do the inspection/evaluation?

The owner is currently in Michigan but will be wintering in South Florida beginning in October.

Neither of us feel comfortable disassembling the gun for inspection.

The photos I took are from my cell phone & then reduced in size for posting.

The owner doesn't have computer access so I'm helping him on this.

FWIW, while I'm not a S & W collector, I've handled/looked the gun over and feel it potentially could be the real deal.

Let me know & thanks again for your help/advice.

CB

 

[ccbrd]

rct269,

Thanks for your reply/help.

Yes the gun's serial number appears in the book.

Please review my previous post and if possible please advise on having the gun evaluated/inspected to determine/verify it's condition/originality.

Thanks again for your help.

CB

 

[gmborkovic]

Hello CB, I live in South Florida. What area will he be in? Best, Mike

 

[ccbrd]

gmborkovic,

Mike,

He's in Arcadia, FL (34266).

Thanks.

CB

 

[Wiregrassguy]

CB, is your friend already in FL? If not and he is driving down, perhaps he could travel through Birmingham AL and meet David Carroll at his shop in Trussville. David is extremely knowledgeable about S&W firearms and can give an expert appraisal on the gun.

 

[ccbrd]

Wiregrassguy,

Thanks for the info/recommendation, I'll pass this along to the owner.

He'll be travelling to Florida in later October.

CB

 

[model3sw]

S&W 1891 Single Shot 1 of 160 in .38S&W (6" Barrel)

Hello,

I'm new to the forum and need advice/help on the following.

A friend owns this handgun & book and has asked me to help him value & perhaps sell both.

Considering its age, condition & rarity we're seeking expert advice.

*****

Smith & Wesson First Model Single Shot
38 Caliber (160 manufactured)
Serial #14xxx

*****

The owner has fired the gun one (1) time, one (1) cartridge.

Its condition appears as new and the bore is mirror.

I'll attach photos (5) for your review & comment.

Thanks in advance for your advice/help.

CB

CB,

A personal thank you for allowing me the privilege of your correspondences and introduction to the owner of such a fine antique Smith & Wesson single shot pistol. I was not shocked that the pistol was in such excellent condition, however, I was pleasantly surprised that it was ... in fact ... even nicer than the pictures. Further, that all the numbers including the latch and grips, match, with the grips being in perfect condition. The grips are usually found, even on the nicer 1891 models, damaged in some manner.

Your description and photos were perfect, surpassed only by the experience of seeing and handling it "in person".

Thank you for allowing me the privilege to preserve and care for this fine piece until it becomes my time to pass it on as you have passed it on to me.

It is, in fact, (as you stated) 1 of the 160 in .38 S&W caliber. While the more common barrel lengths were 10" and 8", it further puts this 6" pistol in .38 caliber as surely one of the lesser manufactured if not one of the few remaining in such excellent condition.

While this is a Model of 1891, the model didn't ship until 1893 being discontinued in 1905 with a total of either 1,240 to 1,450 which includes all of the major production of .22LR, the lesser .32 S&W and the .38 S&W with at least 92 "combination" sets (per SCSW4, which may be in error) of multiple barrels. The number of combination sets has been a mystery over the years as very few are ever seen or know of in a private collection.

According to Roy Jinks, the S&W factory records indicate this specific pistol shipped from Smith & Wesson in September 1895.

All the best, Sal