First time reloading - not good

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rkjent

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I used the Lee Classic Loader for the first. Got squib loads. I followed the instructions to the letter. I figure i have either bad powered, bad primers or the wrong size powder scoop in the kit. (bought kit used)

I was not even sure the powder fired. It was almost like only the primer fired. Almost no noise, no recoil, but the bullet lodge in the barrel.

Any ideas?

rj
 
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Sounds like you forgot the powder - how many did this before a bullet lodged? Did you buy your components new or used?
 
Yup, it sounds like no powder, wet/oily powder that won't ignite, or really old no good powder. If it has a strong acidic odor, it's probably no good.

Even though you may have the specified scoop for your particular powder, I would still highly recommend that you obtain a powder scale to verify.

You are playing with fire if you do not do so......it can be very dangerous not to verify your charge.
 
How about just a tad more information. Like caliber, powder type, bullet weight, scoop size. You know, details!

You see, handloading is all about details. You have to know them before anything can be commented on! ;)
 
There you go! When you want a job done right, ask a Marine.

38 caliber JHP. CCI small pistol primer. Alliant Unique Smokeless Powder. Once fired Winchester brass, whitebox.

I used a thin coat of lube on the outside of the caseings during sizing to make them come out of the die easier. I was careful, but maybe I contaiminated the powder with the grease??

I only loaded a few. I do not think I forgot the powder. In fact I was very concerned about getting the right charge, but I was actually worried about getting too hot of a load and somehow damaging my gun.

thanks
 
One more thing, the powder and primers were new. I broke the seal on both.
 
I would suggest you forget the scoops and buy a scale...the only way you can know
for certain the weight of the powder charge.

Dennis.
 
Check the powder

If the primer fired and the powder did not ignite, then I would suspect bad powder. I have used the classic Lee Loader for .45 acp, 9mm, .223 Remington, and .308 Winchester with good results. Recommended loads using the included powder measure result in a starting load.
Check the powder. Based on your comments that is the only thing that could be wrong.
 
Was there unburnt powder all over the place? If not, you left out the powder. If so, you've got some bad powder, most likely. It is also possible, though less likely, that you got a really lousy crimp, insufficient case resizing, or both. You did size your cases first and crimp after seating the bullets, right?
 
Grease needs to be completely removed before priming and charging the case with powder.

Most pistol dies come with a carbide sizer, no lube needed.

If you must use lube, get one that won't contaminate the powder (lee makes it as well as many other reloading suppliers).

Also, revolver loads should be crimped. Aids ignition and prevents bullet pull during recoil.
 
yep, they were sized and crimped. I have some i have not fired. I will pull the bullets and see. you have me doubting that I did put the powder in.

thanks.
 
rkjent said:
I figure i have either bad powered, bad primers or the wrong size powder scoop in the kit. (bought kit used)



rj
Click to expand...


I'd double check the scoop. Unique ignites easily even when used with little or no crimp. It also works well with reduced loads. It's also very bulky.......using the scoop for another denser powder could give you an light charge. Was it a first round in the cylinder or the last? What kind of crimp? Could be a combination of a light charge and the bullets moving out of the case from recoil. 38's shot in a .357 cylinder could move a long ways without hanging up. You did use a legitimate case lube , and not WD40, right?
 
0.3 dipper = 2.7 gr Unique, which would be a pretty weak load. A 0.5 dipper = 4.6 gr Unique, which should be a safe load for a 110-150 gr JHP. What bullet weight and what dipper did you use?
 
OK, Thanks and here is another question. What is the scoop size in cc?

Reason being, and I could be wrong about this, the scoop that comes with a set of Lee 38spl dies is made for Bullseye powder. If you used it with Unique, with a jacketed bullet, you may not have had enough of it to make the bullet exit the barrel.

Another question. Did the bullet get stuck in the forcing cone/cylinder area or further down the barrel?

Confession is good for the soul, so they say, so here goes. I know that a bullet with only a primer charge behind it stops at the forcing cone and locks up the cylinder, from experience. You aren't the first to mess things up! ;)

Let's make sure it doesn't happen again though!

The Lee scoops are notoriously light on powder weight. As has been mentioned, buy a scale. Check your lot of powder with the scoops. I'd almost bet (not a betting man though) that your charge is somewhere in the 2-3gr area. Not enough to get a bullet out of a barrel if it is a jacketed one!

;)
 
It is a 4" barrel, the bullet was about 1/2 the way down.

I opened a few of the other cases. They all have powder.

I think the scoop is the problem. It is marked as 020, which i think is about 2.5 - 3.0 grains of powder, and I stayed on the light side. Meaning very slightly less than a full scoop. Unique's web site recomends 5.7 grs. for a 125 grain bullet. I think I need to buy a scale.
 
Thanks guys, we may have solved this one. As my high school teacher used to say, "There is no teacher more dear than experience."
 
I think you are on the right track Skip, jacketed bullet, less than 3grs Unique. Thats not enough to clear the barrel. I would suggest a lead bullet and Bullseye with that scoop.
 
It is marked as 020...
Click to expand...
The "020" system is long gone and I've never been able to find a good conversion chart to the current .CC measuring system.

The first question is, did you get a powder chart included with your classic loader? And if so, does it list charges for the "020" dipper or does it list charges for a dipper marked in .CCs?

I'm afraid the only older Lee Custom Engineering/Mequon Reloading Corp. dippers I have on hand is a 039, and it's supposed to throw 5.9 grains of Unique.
 
Lee charge table

I have that charge table. Here it is. Skip, I think this member should just try lead bullets, at least until he gets some experience. Just for fun, I loaded some +P .38s with my lee loader. I used weighed charges of 2400, and new Starline 38spl+P brass with commercial cast 160gr bullets. The simple Lee Loader made quite acceptable ammo.
 

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I have a Lee powder measure set that someone gave me 20+ years ago. I've never used or varified the accuracy of the powder chart that comes with it. But it states the 020 measure throws 3 grains of Bullseye as well as 3 grains of Unique.
Like's been said before, get yourself a scale. You don't need a digital, but a good powder scale is essential.
 
Despite the mixup resulting from an outdated dipper ID and info, there's nothing wrong with using the Lee dippers as measures, once you've double-checked the weight of the charge they measure, just for redundancy. In fact, volumetric measurement is better than weight for consistency, as the weight of any given volume of powder may vary with ambient humidity, for example, but volume, for any practical purpose, is always constant.
 
The dippers aren't really any different than any other metering device that measures by volume. Other than the fact that they are painfully slow to use. But once you develope a good smooth technique they can be quite accurate.
 
Hello

Not sure how much I can help, but I'll try and tell my experience with squibs, as my face turns very red LOL. When I first started loading the .38" Special I started with the Lee Loader kit. I had a fair share of squibs that needed to be unstuck LOL. What I did wrong from what I could tell: I used jacketed bullets, with a lighter load to start with and using the dippers without a scale, and I think my crimps were a bit too light.

Since then I have: 1. started using cast lead bullets instead (I think they are a lot more "forgiving" LOL) 2. Checked the weight of the charge with a scale 3. more attention paid to the crimp.
Since I changed all that, I have not had a squib, and I can shoot and actually relax whilst making noise, without having to worry "did that one clear the muzzle" LOL.

I also have upgraded to a Lee Hand Press and proper set of dies, but I still use my .38" Special Lee Loader for loading wadcutters. Hope that helped someone, other than I feel like a dufus telling of my reloading mistake LOL.
Thanks
Mark
 
We've all made mistakes, and confession is good etc. Yes, I believe quite acceptable ammo can be produced with Lee Loaders, but low pressures, and jacketed bullets are a hard thing for novices to overcome. I, like many others was lucky enough to have someone to help me with my first couple of tries at reloading. I am not sure if I would have been as successful in my early reloading tries without his help. Meanwhile, all info that can be gained, will help down the road.
 
I recently bought a digital scale from Midway for $19.95 after 30-odd years of using an RCBS balance-beam scale and a half dozen before that with Lee dippers (I have a full set of the old pre-cc type). The little digital gives consistent readings with my weights and easily accounts for the tare weight of a powder pan.

This is a cheap investment in crafting consistent and safe handloads.
 
light loads and jacketed bullets are a bad combination, worse in a revolver and gets worse in a revolver as the barrel gets longer. I stuck a couple of jacketed bullets in an 8 3/8 inch K 38 using loads that I thought were merely mild. Jacketed bullets have MUCH more bore friction than cast. The British found out that it took something like 8 tons of hydraulic force to push a 303 bullet down the bore of an SMLE.
 
I'll make a confession too. I've loaded 1000s of rounds of ammo using the Lee dippers with no scale, but I had many years of reloading experience first. The little directions that they include in their dies and classic loaders can be pretty disasterous to new handloaders. They aren't always clear enough or self explanatory to stand alone teach someone all the information that is needed to handload. I'm also not a big fan of Lee's manual and don't recommend it to learn how to get into handloading. Although if you do use their powder handling equipment their manual can be handy.

Their cheap prices lure beginners into the hobby, but their products aren't always that suitable for them.
 
I remember the first loads I made, some 40 years ago. Pretty weak because I was afraid of an over charge. Didn't have anyone to teach me either so I had to learn it all from books. It can be done but having a knowledgeable teacher is preferable. Hang in there, you'll figure it out but buy a scale.
 
Hi looking at your problem an i have a paper slide rule conversion chart for the lee powder dipper set.I got it from lee it runs from the .030 to 4.30 dipper size and it list most all powders . If you send me your address i will send it to you. Or you can call Lee and see if they will send one to you.
 
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