Flashy .357 load

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shil

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Out of a 4" 686, I tried a load of 14.0 2400 with a 158 Hornady XTP HP. It's below-max in Hornady's 7th ed. manual. No issues at all, except a distracting bright white muzzle flash (indoor range, low-light). Can anyone suggest a powder that will yield performance similar to this 2400 loading (estimated 1150-1200 fps) with less flash?
 
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You're just barely under max by .3 gr according to Hornady. Speer shows a max of 14.8 with their 158 gr bullets. I don't know if you can find a better powder(IMHO) than 2400 for the 357 or 44 Magnum for that matter that's not so sensitive to pressure like H110 or 296. You might try those for a similar velocity but they need magnum primers whereby 2400 doesn't. I don't shoot jacketed bullets and don't get much flash with cast bullets with 2400 in either caliber.

BTW-It's hard to get away from the flash with those calibers/powders.
 
The problem that you have is that you are using a magnum caliber in the first place, its hard to knock down muzzle flash and blast when you have one. You can however use 2400 without all that flash, but I would start off at the minimum loading and work your way up. I know with my 13.0 grain load of 2400 with a 158 grain SWC in my 3 1/2 barreled Model 27 the flash is not that bad at all. It's all about moderation.
 
Most of the time flashy powders are double based and don't have any flash inhibitors. It might be worthwhile to try a single based powder and see if you get an objectionable amount of flash. The selection isn't very large, but SR 4756 and H4227 are two that may help. You can get 1200 fps with either one, if you really care to.
 
shil said:
Out of a 4" 686, I tried a load of 14.0 2400 with a 158 Hornady XTP HP. It's below-max in Hornady's 7th ed. manual. No issues at all, except a distracting bright white muzzle flash (indoor range, low-light). Can anyone suggest a powder that will yield performance similar to this 2400 loading (estimated 1150-1200 fps) with less flash?
Click to expand...

I use that exact same load in my own 4" 686 indoors & don't really get a distracting amount of flash. On zombie duty the wheelgun is loaded with .38+P anyway. The Big Dogs are more for fun. I don't really know if I'd want to touch one off in my hallway. :eek:

Some people like Blue Dot, others don't like it's narrow min-max range. I've seen it described as "the psycho girlfriend of powders." :D
 
shil said:
Out of a 4" 686, I tried a load of 14.0 2400 with a 158 Hornady XTP HP. It's below-max in Hornady's 7th ed. manual. No issues at all, except a distracting bright white muzzle flash (indoor range, low-light). Can anyone suggest a powder that will yield performance similar to this 2400 loading (estimated 1150-1200 fps) with less flash?
Click to expand...
HS-6 will produce considerably less flash than most other powders that slow. It's surprisingly low flash and will give you the performance you are looking for. I highly suggest you use a magnum primer with HS-6.
 
Flash is a result of the amount of powder used, the slower the powder, the more the flash. Low light conditions allow you to see the flash.

Commercial self protection ammo and law enforcement ammo usually have a flash suppressant added to the powder by the companies. No real need to add it to powders for reloads in the vast majority of that market.

I'm surprised that anyone claims HS6 is low flash, I always felt it to be very flashy in .38 spl and 9mm loads.

Some people like the flash and load light bullets with lots of slow powder to see it.
 
Another good powder that might knock down some of the flash is Unique.
 
Good morning
7- 8 grains Unique has been a long proven standby load. I have probably shot more 158 grainers (cast) with 7 grains Unique than any other powder in my reloading time.
 
You might try closing both eyes when you pull the trigger. That's what I do.:D

Try Unique as recommended above. You should be able to get a fairly fast load with less flash.
 
AA powders

I use H110 but like 2400 it is very flashy out of a four inch revolver. It does achieve close to 1200fps in my 686. Bluedot will easily reach 1250fps but with higher pressure and there is still a lot of flash.

I'm trying AA7 and I have just tried the starting load of 10.5 grains. There is no flash but the recoil seems no greater than 7 grains of Unique.
I'm going to work up to the max load and see if I can get more velocity with less pressure than BD or H110.

I was hoping someone who uses AA powder would chime in with some chronograph results and flash at maximum loads.
AA7 seems to have a very limited load range/use much like BD.
Anyone tried AA7 or AA9 in a revolver or carbine?

Bruce
 
Switch to cast bullets.

Whatever the powder, you'll have less flash.

Additional benefit, more velocity for any given powder charge over a jacketed bullet.
 
Heavy 357mag loads in short bbls flash & boom, that is just the way it is. Put those same loads in a 6" gun & the flash pretty much goes away. SLower powders produce the highest vel in any bbl length, but you pay for it in unburnt powder as a huge muzzle flash. If you want slightly less performance & blast, drop to a slightly faster powder. Unqiue will work about 100fps slower.
 
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I would try Winchester's auto comp, you will give up a little velocity though.
I'm not sure if VV's 3N37 has a flash suppressant ?
 
Bruce Lee M said:
I was hoping someone who uses AA powder would chime in with some chronograph results and flash at maximum loads.
AA7 seems to have a very limited load range/use much like BD.
Anyone tried AA7 or AA9 in a revolver or carbine?

Bruce
Click to expand...
Sorry no velocity numbers with AA powders but I can tell you AA#9 is the full power .357 Magnum powder in the Accurate line. I haven't tried AA#7 yet but I know AA#9 can holds it's own with the other "magnum" powders in the .357 Magnum. It might even generate higher velocities than 2400.
 
.357 MUZZLE FLASH

Here is something to consider...
When a round goes off there is a controlled explosion.
All powders produce a muzzle flash. A lot of the flashes
must be seen in the dark.
 
Steve C said:
I'm surprised that anyone claims HS6 is low flash, I always felt it to be very flashy in .38 spl and 9mm loads.
Click to expand...
HS-6 doesn't react well to lighter loads. It works much better up near the top end of the pressure range. It will be flashy and dirty too if not used in that manner.

You are correct about HS-6 in a standard pressure .38 Special but the flash is tamped down considerably when you get up in the +P pressure range.
 
Reduced muzzle flash powders....

Shil; Muzzle flash is a big factor in my defensive handloads because of the likely event of use in darkness. Hodgdon Universal is the very best choice for lack of muzzle flash with current powders. You would have to check various manuals to see if it would produce the MV you desire. Universal has a burn rate similar to Unique.
 
shil said:
Out of a 4" 686, I tried a load of 14.0 2400 with a 158 Hornady XTP HP. It's below-max in Hornady's 7th ed. manual. No issues at all, except a distracting bright white muzzle flash (indoor range, low-light). Can anyone suggest a powder that will yield performance similar to this 2400 loading (estimated 1150-1200 fps) with less flash?
Click to expand...

This is the exact load/bullet I run in my HP.
The flash I can deal with but it does smell funny.:D
 
shil said:
Out of a 4" 686, I tried a load of 14.0 2400 with a 158 Hornady XTP HP. It's below-max in Hornady's 7th ed. manual. No issues at all, except a distracting bright white muzzle flash (indoor range, low-light). Can anyone suggest a powder that will yield performance similar to this 2400 loading (estimated 1150-1200 fps) with less flash?
Click to expand...

I won't recommend any powder other than 2400 with 158-gr .357-Magnum loads. It's just the perfect powder for that cartridge and a 4" service revolver.

But just for shiz and giggles, I'll give you some photos I took a couple years ago and posted on another forum. IIRC, I think I posted many of my pics on this forum as well but it has long been forgotten. I photographed the muzzle flash(es) using a S&W 4" 686 and a Canon 30D DSLR.

Unique MAX load will give you less velocity and less flash than 2400

Unique357load.jpg


2400 is a "bright" flash for only a millisecond. I took these pics outdoors and my eyes were already adjusted for night when I touched off this round. I don't even remember blinking, let alone being dazed by some flash. It just didn't happen. No "spots on the retinas" and no lingering issues. I never have found this load to be "distracting" at all even in pitch dark.

2400357load.jpg


This link will let you see about a dozen other "popular handgun load" photos taken by me at night using simple time exposure. I enjoyed doing this photography for my handgun brothers and sisters. Jeez, these threads have been dormant for quite a while.

Nighttime muzzle flash pics - GlockPost

I own the copyright on my photos but you are free to share these as long as you link back to the original thread on GlockPost.com

Nighttime muzzle flash pics - GlockPost
 
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Here is a picture that I took a picture of from one of the gun magazines I subscribe to. Didn't scan it for some reason, hence the "shiny" spot on the middle of it.

This is muzzle flash and it is even trained! haha

As many have said, Paul5388 being one, ArchAngel being another, SR4756, AA#9 are two powders that will get you there just fine. Personally, with a 4" barrel and a magnum caliber, there is only so much you can do. Use a heavy bullet, full charge and a good crimp. All of those things will allow the powder to burn more efficiently causing a reduction in muzzle flash. There is a MILSURP powder, WC820 that loads like AA#9 or H110, depending on your lot, that has much less flame associated with it.

Hope this helps!

RINGOFFIRE.jpg
 
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FWIW I loaded 158JHP Remington bullets with 10.5-11-11.2-11.4-11.6 grains of AA#7 and fired these loads in a 4" 686. There was no noticable flash as compared to H110 or Bluedot. The load feels good and primers appear normal unlike heavy loads of H110 or Bluedot.
I do not know the actual velocity of these loads.
If you are looking for less flash the AA powders may be the way to go.
YMMV.
Bruce
 
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