Floating Hand => Light Hammer Strikes?

[TheTinMan]

I recently acquired a 625-3 with a floating hand. Lockup is pretty good and timing checks out with range rod.

It functioned fine with American Eagle ammo. DA trigger pull was rough and over 12 pounds. SA pull was ok in the mid 3-pound range.

I replaced the mainspring with a reduced power Wolff unit and put a 14 pound rebound spring in which actually seemed heavier than what the gun came with. That spring didn't look like any S&W spring I've seem in terms of color (kind of brassy). Also did a lot of work to smooth out the action. Got DA pull down to 8-1/2 pounds and SA pull down to 2 lbs. 10 oz.

After those changes, I had repeated failures to fire with reloads. The hammer definitely was hitting the primers (Winchester large pistol) and they didn't look like light strikes; however, the same rounds fired fine in my 1911.

Turned out the strain screw had been shortened, so I put a S&W factory screw in (.333" of shaft vs. only .315" before). DA pull up to 9 Lbs. 5 oz - fine for me. Also put in 15 pound rebound spring to get SA pull just under 3 pounds.

Had one light primer strike out of 50 rounds yesterday. Round lit off on second strike (unlike some before it).

I fully recognize that the combination of my reloads with the reduced power mainspring probably are the problem.

My question is, is there any chance that the floating hand could be a contributing factor somehow? I'm probably grasping at straws, but that floating hand just seems so darn weird.

In dry firing, it seems like the gun doesn't fully reset when the trigger is released every once in a while.

Last but not least, where would be the best place to get a replacement trigger assembly with a normal hand and how hard would it be to fit properly? (I know that the hand thickness is a critical measurement here.)

Thanks for any assistance!

 

[colt_saa]

It worked fine before you changed the springs.........now you have light strikes with the new springs.......you answered your own question

Why change the trigger? Just change the hand.

 

[garbler]

I have a 625-3 and one of the early ones that I bought new in 1989 as I recall. Not sure what year your gun is but the early ones had Pachmayr grips and this is a problem. The grip screw actually hits or interferes with the main spring when it is compressed. Hard to believe a manufacturer could do something like this but in the late 80's through about 1991 S&W was taken over by Steve Melvin and the British who honestly turned out some really bad guns while trying to swap over to CNC and gut the custom shop and high priced labor.

So though the concept of a new SS 45 acp revolver was a great idea the Pachmayr grips were not. I put Hogues on mine and never had anymore issues but I recall JD Jones and I were communicating on the numerous problems with these early 625's and both of us thought there were some problems with Smith's half moom clips, headspace and light hits. Then I heard Ron Power mention the grip screw hitting the mainspring and anyway after changing the grips, buying new moon clips and doing a complete work up on the piece I have not had anymore light hit problems.

Good luck

 

[TheTinMan]

It worked fine before you changed the springs.........now you have light strikes with the new springs.......you answered your own question

Why change the trigger? Just change the hand.

Actually, I don't know if it would have worked with the original spring and my handloads because I didn't try that. Only American Eagle .45 ACP.

I did not know that you could just change the hand. Thank you very much for that info! I'll have to take another S&W apart at the same time and figure out how the hands and triggers compare so I understand how to replace the hand. I'll look into Kuhnhausen's book too for help.

Thanks to both of you all!

 

[Nightowl]

The hand is under spring tension, so you will want to make sure the get the spring back correctly, otherwise the cylinder will not always rotate.

The hands are measured in width. Check the width of the floating hand at the tip, and replace with a like size. Sometimes this does not work and you have to experiment from there on how wide a new one needs to be.

i always replace the floating hand in any gun I buy. I go from there on correcting any other issues. Mostly because it makes a better double action pull. If you only shoot single action, I don't know that it matters as long as it carries up correctly. The hand should not have any influence on light hits.

 

[jon schroeder]

You also changed primers. Winchesters are harder and the factory Federals will be fully seated.

 

[Harrison]

My early 625 has a problem with light hammer strikes and it has stock mainspring, new strain screw and stock rebound slide spring. It is reliable only with Federal primers. As long as I use federal primers all is well. Switch to anything else 2 or 3 out 10 will fail to fire the first pull. I even tried hand seating each primer to ensure they were fully seated. the problem continued. It just seems to be the nature of this particular pistol.

 

[Bosshoss]

My early 625 has a problem with light hammer strikes and it has stock mainspring, new strain screw and stock rebound slide spring. It is reliable only with Federal primers. As long as I use federal primers all is well. Switch to anything else 2 or 3 out 10 will fail to fire the first pull. I even tried hand seating each primer to ensure they were fully seated. the problem continued. It just seems to be the nature of this particular pistol.

Are you using moon clips? How much end shake does the gun have?
Might need to open the gun up and see if it has any drag marks that shows rubbing that might slow the hammer down.

 

[TSQUARED]

Switch to the Fderal primers and you should resolve your problem. Federal primers have softer primer cups than Winchester primers. I only use Federal primers in my revolvers with lightened DA trigger pulls.

 

[TheTinMan]

Well, here's an odd follow up.

I went to the range yesterday to experiment with different moonclips. The ones I'd used before were very thin & springy, but I have some Wilson Combat moonclips which are thicker and much stiffer. However, I managed to leave all of the moonclips in another bag. DOAH!

Just for grins, I decided to try 2 rounds without moonclips at all. Both fired fine. In fact, I shot 50 rounds without any misfires at all. No moonclips. Exact same batch of hand loads with Winchester primers. .45 ACP (NOT Auto Rim) cases.

My theory now is that the thin, springy moonclips were somehow acting like shock absorbers.

I'll report back when I manage to remember the Wilson Combat moonclips, plus how .45 Auto Rim cases work although there's no reason to think the AR cases will be a problem now.

P.S. Suggesting Federal primers as a substitute makes perfect sense... except I can't find large pistol primers of any kind anywhere right now. All I have is Winchester.

 

[TheTinMan]

Hammer Shims Help

Follow up: fired 50 of an identical batch of hand loads yesterday without any issues.

Had the gun on my bench to replace the front sight. Noticed a small rub area on the upper left edge of the hammer which I had missed before. Working the hammer with the trigger pulled back, there was a fair amount of slop in hammer movement from side to side so I added another shim on each side (had added 1 per side earlier). Apparently that cleaned up the hammer drop enough to get more reliable functioning.

I still wouldn't use this particular revolver for anything other than target work. Still have not fooled with the floating hand, and I wouldn't completely trust ignition without a full power mainspring. I love the balance and feel of it though.