Florida HR-218

[jimmyj]

New course of fire is now 38 rounds instead of 48 rounds.
New course is draw, move, fire, reload.
I depend on a cane to walk and my left arm/hand is partly paralyze.
I qualified 35 out of 38 with a semi-auto M1911 .45.
The Instructor would not allow my revolver due to the time limits on reloading as no one can fire and reload a revolver with the quick times required.
The new course is designed for 9mm semi-autos with large magazine capacity as the recover time with a 9mm is faster then with larger calibers.

 

[IAM Rand]

I hate the 1 size fits all kinda training and qualifications. The biggest thing is to make sure the person is competent and capable to carry concealed. Should it be to the standards of being on duty. Maybe, maybe not. The thing with HR218 is it mainly pertains to a law enforcement officer (active or retired) being off duty and carrying a concealed firearm in other states. Being in a uniform and being in plain clothes are, to a certain extent, different animals. Also, being off duty and being on duty are different by their very nature. Off duty or retired carrying concealed, you are trying to be more of a good witness and acting only when life is being threatened, yours or others. Being on duty, you are a known quantity and will usually be acting no matter what the situation.

If someone wants to carry a revolver under HR218 then good on you. Should it be the same course of fire as a semi auto, 9 or whatever, no. To me it is just lazy that they gear the quals toward one thing. Makes no sense.

 

[geeollie]

Hi jimmy. The quote below is from policemag.com concerning LEOSA (HR218).

A few questions for you. Is there a specific State requirement for a timed qualification throughout your state? Or is it just the place you have gone to do the qualification shoot that requires it? Since you can go to ANY person or place that is certified to do LEO Quals within your state, could you go to another agency, a private instructor etc and not have the need for the timed shoot??

I have gone to both our states Training Academy and a private range that is set up with certified LEO trainers and can provide the required printed card for HR218. Does your State require that you qualify with both the Semi Auto and the revolver? Some States interpret the language found in LEOSA concerning firearm "TYPE" as being any handgun. It may be you have no other choice. But, there may be other ways as well. I wish you well.

This is the quote from policemag.com
The phrase "the active duty standards for qualification" leaves it open for the agency to determine the appropriate course of fire. Many agencies have several courses of fire such as the uniformed duty course of fire, one for secondary/back-up guns, off-duty, and other situations.

Understanding the LEOSA Qualification Process

The requirements for a retired officer to carry under the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act are simple, so agencies and officers shouldn't complicate them.

www.policemag.com

 

[WCCPHD]

North Carolina state law requires that to carry per HR 218, the retired/current officer qualify with EACH gun (by serial number) s/he will carry and to shoot the same qualification course as a current NC LEO.

That's because the legislature basically left it up to the NC Attorney general and since 2000 they all have been anti-gun and anti-law enforcement.

 

[fiasconva]

Congrats on passing the course. I wouldn't worry about what the requirements were as long as I passed them. Ya dun gud!

 

[David Sinko]

How does your so-called instructor not "allow" you to use a revolver? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. My 218 carry is a 625-4 with ball ammo loaded in moonclips for those times I stray into NY or NJ. The last time I qualified with it I was the only one to shoot a perfect score and I was the only one using a revolver. Can you post this impossible course of fire? I would very much like to see it.

 

[CH4]

Then there’s Nevada…
The course of fire for retirees is the same for CCW renewals:

Untimed
6 @ 3 yds
12 @ 5 yds
12 @ 7 yds

Use any gun to qualify. Carry any gun you want. LEOSA card says qualified to carry a “handgun.”

I am hoping the LEOSA Reform Act 2024 passes, extending qualifications to 3 years, etc.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/354

 

[fatcat3]

Constitutional carry. What part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?

 

[walkin' trails]

New course of fire is now 38 rounds instead of 48 rounds.
New course is draw, move, fire, reload.
I depend on a cane to walk and my left arm/hand is partly paralyze.
I qualified 35 out of 38 with a semi-auto M1911 .45.
The Instructor would not allow my revolver due to the time limits on reloading as no one can fire and reload a revolver with the quick times required.
The new course is designed for 9mm semi-autos with large magazine capacity as the recover time with a 9mm is faster then with larger calibers.

I’m not familiar with Florida’s LEOSA qualifications. Do they list on the qualification card what handgun was fired? My state’s LE academy, where orphan LEOs have to go, listed by make, model, and caliber. One sheriff’s department offers the service and only lists “handgun.” I’d also suggest you get a Florida CCW if the technical details might become an issue. Lot of states recognize Florida.

My state’s LEOSA course is the same as the POST for active officers. It’s not exactly difficult. It doesn’t have reload stages, just the requirement to keep your firearm topped off. I’ve qualifies alternatively with Both a semi and a 5-shot. The revolver blows the minds of the academy instructors, but even more so when the retiree shoots just as well or better the the guys with semis, including the recruits also going thru. In fact, loading devices aren’t even required although the instructors have seemed to not understand basic revolver top-offs that were once common in curricula.

 

[jimmyj]

I’m not familiar with Florida’s LEOSA qualifications. Do they list on the qualification card what handgun was fired? My state’s LE academy, where orphan LEOs have to go, listed by make, model, and caliber. One sheriff’s department offers the service and only lists “handgun.” I’d also suggest you get a Florida CCW if the technical details might become an issue. Lot of states recognize Florida.

My state’s LEOSA course is the same as the POST for active officers. It’s not exactly difficult. It doesn’t have reload stages, just the requirement to keep your firearm topped off. I’ve qualifies alternatively with Both a semi and a 5-shot. The revolver blows the minds of the academy instructors, but even more so when the retiree shoots just as well or better the the guys with semis, including the recruits also going thru. In fact, loading devices aren’t even required although the instructors have seemed to not understand basic revolver top-offs that were once common in curricula.

 

[jimmyj]

I’m not familiar with Florida’s LEOSA qualifications. Do they list on the qualification card what handgun was fired? My state’s LE academy, where orphan LEOs have to go, listed by make, model, and caliber. One sheriff’s department offers the service and only lists “handgun.” I’d also suggest you get a Florida CCW if the technical details might become an issue. Lot of states recognize Florida.

My state’s LEOSA course is the same as the POST for active officers. It’s not exactly difficult. It doesn’t have reload stages, just the requirement to keep your firearm topped off. I’ve qualifies alternatively with Both a semi and a 5-shot. The revolver blows the minds of the academy instructors, but even more so when the retiree shoots just as well or better the the guys with semis, including the recruits also going thru. In fact, loading devices aren’t even required although the instructors have seemed to not understand basic revolver top-offs that were once common in curricula.

My local LEO Instructor lists Make, Model, Caliber, and Serial Number.
I have a Florida CCW and also a Florida Armed Security Officer License.
Florida does not require a CCW License to carry conceiled.

 

[Sgt. Buzzard]

I qualify in Virginia. Same course of fire for auto's or revolvers. Auto is shot in six round strings and five shot strings for J frames or 6 for K frame etc. So 48 or 40 shot at 15, 7, 5, 3 yards. The qualification cards are listed to make, model, caliber.

I also have a Virginia carry card and that allows pretty much everything. Good for five years and since I applied showing qualifications of a LEOSA, G42 & S&W442 I have no idea of what might be required for Joe Citizen under VA CCW.

walkin' trails, you date yourself to even know about partial reloads with a revolver. Personally I still train by doing all my reloading by speed strip daylight & dark and loading two rounds with proper indexing just to keep up skills. You never know. After 52 years you get pretty good at it.

 

[walkin' trails]

walkin' trails, you date yourself to even know about partial reloads with a revolver. Personally I still train by doing all my reloading by speed strip daylight & dark and loading two rounds with proper indexing just to keep up skills. You never know. After 52 years you get pretty good at it.

I’m glad someone here recognizes the technique. I haven’t taken any classes for the current crop of revolver gurus (Daryl Bolke, Chuck Haggard, etc), but some things got taught well enough to get engrained in long term memory. When I went thru the Border Patrol Academy, they were still teaching speed loops. The patrol had not managed to officially adopt dump pounces, strips, or speed loaders for reasons that didn’t make much since. Anyway, I got pretty good with the loops.

On last years LEOSA qual, the lead firearms instructor mentioned he used to carry a 642 (had to educate him on the model number based on his description). Carried it as backup when he was on the road. When another retiree qualifying with a K-frame pulled out a speed loader, the instructor was impressed - had never seen one before. Made me realize he’d probably never qualified with the five shot either.

We’ve got to keep those skills alive.