FN 1910 cleaned up
- Thread starter Gene L
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Try this page for more info. Some tell tale signs are on the other side.
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jbtrucker
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Old gun doesn't need to be shiny looks good to me
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Gene L
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Kurusu, thanks for the link. My gun had horn grips, which were moth eaten and I replaced them. Still got them however. Which would I guess date it to pre WW 2. Also, the lettering on the slide is sanserif, all capitals, a space between patent and dispose. Since there isn't any information I can find that dates when the space was deleted, I'm still in the dark.
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Gene L
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Just got off the gunboards forum, where a guy in May posted his pistol in a very close serial number range to mine. His was a Japanese WW 2 bringback (assuming that's how it got here) and has a Japanese military/acceptance stamp on it. Japanese officers were required to buy their own pistols privately, which according to other comments on that board, Otherwise, it's like mine, same lettering and all. So I'm thinking mine is pre 1939.
looks solid, even better if it shoots... Might just still have an invisible layer of crud attached to it from years of surface oxidation. I've had a few surplus guns all of a sudden start be a little shiny after several cleanings just with solvent and patches.. nothing special.
I've never done it, but there's probably metal polishes and plastic polishes that would brighten it up a little, but would have to research if it is safe to use on a collectible like that.
I've never done it, but there's probably metal polishes and plastic polishes that would brighten it up a little, but would have to research if it is safe to use on a collectible like that.
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Here's an FN Model 1910 that should never be cleaned up, but just left "as is." It is the actual gun used by Gavrilo Princip to shoot Austrian Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife Sophie, starting World War I. It carries serial number 19074. This gun initiated an incredible number of deaths and the reshaping of the world as we know it.
Princip’s pistol is now on display in the Heeresgeschichtliches (Military history) Museum in Vienna, Austria. Badly corroded, it was recovered from a Jesuit monastery formerly in Sarajevo, but relocated to Vienna as WWI started.
John
Princip’s pistol is now on display in the Heeresgeschichtliches (Military history) Museum in Vienna, Austria. Badly corroded, it was recovered from a Jesuit monastery formerly in Sarajevo, but relocated to Vienna as WWI started.
John
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Here's an FN Model 1910 that should never be cleaned up, but just left "as is." It is the actual gun used by Gavrilo Princip to shoot Austrian Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife Sophie, starting World War I. It carries serial number 19074. This gun initiated an incredible number of deaths and the reshaping of the world as we know it.
Princip’s pistol is now on display in the Heeresgeschichtliches (Military history) Museum in Vienna, Austria. Badly corroded, it was recovered from a Jesuit monastery formerly in Sarajevo, but relocated to Vienna as WWI started.
John
Not for sure the actual pistol. But one of the possible 4.
There was a Distributor in Liege before WW2 that sold FN and other Leige makers products all over the world. Their name was Schroeder. They took both commercial contract orders and Military orders for arms and associated goods from all over.
In mid 1939, Schroeder took an order from Japan for a number (unkn exactly how many ) Model 1910 pistols in 32acp cal.
I'm not sure if the order was directly from the Gov't of Japan or another Commercial endeavor in Japan, but the pistols were shipped to the City of Matsuhara (sp?) in Japan.
That was in Dec/1939.
All of the pistols were in the ser# range of 450.000 to 495,000.
None of the pistols in that range that were in the Schroeder shipment to Japan were marked with anything other than the commercial FN markings. No Japanese property or Service markings.
Those that have been located show some Japanese markings that have been applied later in their life after arrival in Japan.
Since your pistol in 437,431,,I'd place a guesstimate that it was mfg'rd slightly earlier than those in that Schroeder contract shipment to Japan of Dec1939.
Making your pistol a pre-WW2 mfg (if you use USA entry as a timeline) or a WW2 mfg if you use European WW2 timeline.
Belgium didn't surrender to the German forces till May of 1940. So Belgium and the FN plant were not at war (my guess) when your pistol or the Japanese contract pistols were mfg'rd.
The FN factory was taken over by the Germans 5/20/1940
and started evacuating the plant at the end of July 1944.
Very nice handguns and under rated IMO. It makes them still affordable I guess which is a good thing!
When Browning Arms Co,USA began importing them to the USA from FN in the mid 50's, they renamed the pistol to the 'Model 1955'.
In mid 1939, Schroeder took an order from Japan for a number (unkn exactly how many ) Model 1910 pistols in 32acp cal.
I'm not sure if the order was directly from the Gov't of Japan or another Commercial endeavor in Japan, but the pistols were shipped to the City of Matsuhara (sp?) in Japan.
That was in Dec/1939.
All of the pistols were in the ser# range of 450.000 to 495,000.
None of the pistols in that range that were in the Schroeder shipment to Japan were marked with anything other than the commercial FN markings. No Japanese property or Service markings.
Those that have been located show some Japanese markings that have been applied later in their life after arrival in Japan.
Since your pistol in 437,431,,I'd place a guesstimate that it was mfg'rd slightly earlier than those in that Schroeder contract shipment to Japan of Dec1939.
Making your pistol a pre-WW2 mfg (if you use USA entry as a timeline) or a WW2 mfg if you use European WW2 timeline.
Belgium didn't surrender to the German forces till May of 1940. So Belgium and the FN plant were not at war (my guess) when your pistol or the Japanese contract pistols were mfg'rd.
The FN factory was taken over by the Germans 5/20/1940
and started evacuating the plant at the end of July 1944.
Very nice handguns and under rated IMO. It makes them still affordable I guess which is a good thing!
When Browning Arms Co,USA began importing them to the USA from FN in the mid 50's, they renamed the pistol to the 'Model 1955'.
OP
Gene L
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Thanks, 2152 and others. The pistol is earlier than I thought. I plan on carrying it as a SD gun because it's small I for some reason, I like a .32.. Not a Sock Drawer gun, but aged gently. All is good mechanically, Bore is great. Not a 25 yard gun, but I'm drawn to it. I can't find the original horn grips, possibly I threw them away, but the search continues.
I've had some of what I consider "good deals" on a couple of pistols and this was one. Motivated seller on consignment at a LGS and a .32 is less value (or was) than a .380.
I've had some of what I consider "good deals" on a couple of pistols and this was one. Motivated seller on consignment at a LGS and a .32 is less value (or was) than a .380.
I bought one of the 1910 .380 pistols just because of the historical link.
As an aside, the Archduke was wearing a very good quality bulletproof vest, the best that could be had at the time. He was shot in the neck. The Secret Service liked it so much they bought one for McKinley. It had to be special ordered, they were not at that time "off the rack" items. It showed up two weeks after McKinley was assassinated.
As an aside, the Archduke was wearing a very good quality bulletproof vest, the best that could be had at the time. He was shot in the neck. The Secret Service liked it so much they bought one for McKinley. It had to be special ordered, they were not at that time "off the rack" items. It showed up two weeks after McKinley was assassinated.
I'd think twice about SD carry. This is one of the few guns I've heard a reasonable story about it going off "by itself".
Don't have a link, but someone on another forum had his in his coat pocket hanging in the closet. It went off and put a hole in the coat and floor, IIRC. The tab on the striker had failed.
Problem is, they are hard to rack, and if you carry a round in the chamber the striker is cocked. There's not a huge amount of metal in the striker tab, and if it breaks the gun fires.
I seem to recall the grip safety actually blocks the sear from releasing, but if the tab on the striker goes, all bets are off.
Still one of my favorite vintage pistols tho, along with the 1934 Beretta.
Don't have a link, but someone on another forum had his in his coat pocket hanging in the closet. It went off and put a hole in the coat and floor, IIRC. The tab on the striker had failed.
Problem is, they are hard to rack, and if you carry a round in the chamber the striker is cocked. There's not a huge amount of metal in the striker tab, and if it breaks the gun fires.
I seem to recall the grip safety actually blocks the sear from releasing, but if the tab on the striker goes, all bets are off.
Still one of my favorite vintage pistols tho, along with the 1934 Beretta.
Your headsup is very pertinent and absolutely true.
The only thing I don't agree is the "hard to rack" thing. I'm only talking about the .32 here. For the .380, wich I never handled, as you say "all bets are off".
I have four of these guns. Two Browning marked .380s from about 1968
and two FN .32s that are probably both pre war. The recoil springs are
strong and all four are hard to rack. The only way to carry one is cocked
in my opinion. They are completely safe to carry cocked with the manual
safety off because of the design of the grip safety. The only way for one
to "go off" would be for the lug on the striker to shear which seems
extremely unlikely if all parts are original and unaltered. Of course
bubba might try to improve the trigger pull by filing or stoning the
striker lug. If the striker spring was a too long replacement that might
have resulted in damage to the lug. I have carried one of my .380s a
few times and when I do I unload the chamber and release tension on
the striker by pulling the trigger with a nylon dowel in the barrel when
I get home. Great pistols but they do share the drawbacks of all striker fired guns for CC. John Browning reportedly always carried a .32 1910
in his pocket.
and two FN .32s that are probably both pre war. The recoil springs are
strong and all four are hard to rack. The only way to carry one is cocked
in my opinion. They are completely safe to carry cocked with the manual
safety off because of the design of the grip safety. The only way for one
to "go off" would be for the lug on the striker to shear which seems
extremely unlikely if all parts are original and unaltered. Of course
bubba might try to improve the trigger pull by filing or stoning the
striker lug. If the striker spring was a too long replacement that might
have resulted in damage to the lug. I have carried one of my .380s a
few times and when I do I unload the chamber and release tension on
the striker by pulling the trigger with a nylon dowel in the barrel when
I get home. Great pistols but they do share the drawbacks of all striker fired guns for CC. John Browning reportedly always carried a .32 1910
in his pocket.
OP
Gene L
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"They are completely safe to carry cocked with the manual
safety off because of the design of the grip safety."
Thanks, but if I carry, it's going to be with all safeties on. I'm a klutz, and don't trust myself.
Mine is not hard to rack, no harder (I think) than my .32 PPK.
I read somewhere, and I think it's was mentioned earlier, that to convert it to .380 only required a barrel change...no recoil spring, not even a magazine change.
I don't intend to make this change, however. Can't find a barrel for one reason, can't afford it for another reason.
safety off because of the design of the grip safety."
Thanks, but if I carry, it's going to be with all safeties on. I'm a klutz, and don't trust myself.
Mine is not hard to rack, no harder (I think) than my .32 PPK.
I read somewhere, and I think it's was mentioned earlier, that to convert it to .380 only required a barrel change...no recoil spring, not even a magazine change.
I don't intend to make this change, however. Can't find a barrel for one reason, can't afford it for another reason.
DWalt
Member
"My gun had horn grips, which were moth eaten and I replaced them. Still got them however."
I have seen several FN grips with worm holes (and have a FN 1900 with "Holy Grips"). I have always wondered just what type of worm would chomp on a grip. I have heard that wood flour was used as a filler, so maybe something like termites? Does anyone know?
I have seen several FN grips with worm holes (and have a FN 1900 with "Holy Grips"). I have always wondered just what type of worm would chomp on a grip. I have heard that wood flour was used as a filler, so maybe something like termites? Does anyone know?
Stevie
Member
The grips on many old pistols and buttplates too were made of horn(cow horn I guess)….hot steamed and pressed like plastic into whatever form like grooved buttplates or checkered grips.
I fixed a worm eaten FN shotgun butt-plate that was rather severly bug eaten....used epoxy and re-colored with a sharpie.
Word of warning!!...my FN 1910 has/had horn grips. First time I shot it the right grip cracked around the escrutcheon!! I repaired it but put the original grips away and fitted it with modern replacement grips
I fixed a worm eaten FN shotgun butt-plate that was rather severly bug eaten....used epoxy and re-colored with a sharpie.
Word of warning!!...my FN 1910 has/had horn grips. First time I shot it the right grip cracked around the escrutcheon!! I repaired it but put the original grips away and fitted it with modern replacement grips
The FN butt plates, grip caps and pistol grip panels were made of Water Buffalo Horn.
Many other firearms mfg'rs of that same era used the matrl as well for the same parts.
Cut into thin slices and then boiled in water or steamed, the material becomes very soft & pliable.
It is easily formed in simple compression moulds and presses to about any form and design imprint you want.
It cools quickly and holds that new shape w/o twisting or return bending.
Even today, an old 'horn' butt plate or grip panel from 100 yrs ago can be reshaped if warped or twisted by placing it in simmering water for a minute or 2.
Then carefully remove,,it'll be like a piece of cooked pasta!
Place it back on the butt of the stock or the panel back onto the pistol and weight it back down to hold the position, curve, ect it needs.
A few minutes to cool and it has that old fit back to it.
When weighting it down, don't use too much pressure or anything that will imprint itself into the softened surface of the plate. That image imprint will still be there when it cools.
You really don't need much to reshape it to the butt stock or frame. It's own weight and the fact that it's in the softened condition it is when pulled from the hot water is enough to straighten it out.
The worm holes are often from common closet & clothing moths. They seem to like the natural material and lay their eggs on the stuff. The eggs hatch and the larve borrow down into the horn and stay there till they emerge as more moths.
I think that's the cycle.
I've read that another source is that when the material was first brought from Asia as a raw material, the horn already had some sort of parasitic fly that did the same thing to the horn.
The material was supposed to be steamed at the source before being exported to kill the bugs and larve,,but much of it probably wasn't. So it just got sent out with the little buggers along for a ride.
The material tends to de-laminate at the edges as the layers of the natural stuff crack open. Then small chips break off and you start to see cracks developing farther into the material as the natural laminations lift open.
That problem is an easy fix with common SuperGlue.
Flood those edge with the stuff and the horn will draw the glue deep into the cracks and de-laminations. It will set up nearly instantly and hard. S/Glue works it's best on natural materials like this and your fingers.
It works well to repair the worm holes too.
Squirt a little down in there,,some are quite deep and twist around. So a bit of the glue helps re-inforce the area as well.
You can let that dry and use colored epoxy to top the hole(s) off and cover them.
I use Bicarb of Soda mixed with a little black coloring (black copy toner) to fill the holes and larger cracks.
added
The use of 'Wood Flour' in grips and butt plates was during the mfg'r of these items made from Gutta Percha, a natural latex material.
Wood Flour being nothing more than Wood Dust and was a filler for the latex hard rubber like substance.
'Hard Rubber' grips and butt plates are again another substance. These are vulcanized rubber and the early name for the product was Vulcanite. They don't show the normal swirl and combination of colors that Gutta Percha often does.
Many other firearms mfg'rs of that same era used the matrl as well for the same parts.
Cut into thin slices and then boiled in water or steamed, the material becomes very soft & pliable.
It is easily formed in simple compression moulds and presses to about any form and design imprint you want.
It cools quickly and holds that new shape w/o twisting or return bending.
Even today, an old 'horn' butt plate or grip panel from 100 yrs ago can be reshaped if warped or twisted by placing it in simmering water for a minute or 2.
Then carefully remove,,it'll be like a piece of cooked pasta!
Place it back on the butt of the stock or the panel back onto the pistol and weight it back down to hold the position, curve, ect it needs.
A few minutes to cool and it has that old fit back to it.
When weighting it down, don't use too much pressure or anything that will imprint itself into the softened surface of the plate. That image imprint will still be there when it cools.
You really don't need much to reshape it to the butt stock or frame. It's own weight and the fact that it's in the softened condition it is when pulled from the hot water is enough to straighten it out.
The worm holes are often from common closet & clothing moths. They seem to like the natural material and lay their eggs on the stuff. The eggs hatch and the larve borrow down into the horn and stay there till they emerge as more moths.
I think that's the cycle.
I've read that another source is that when the material was first brought from Asia as a raw material, the horn already had some sort of parasitic fly that did the same thing to the horn.
The material was supposed to be steamed at the source before being exported to kill the bugs and larve,,but much of it probably wasn't. So it just got sent out with the little buggers along for a ride.
The material tends to de-laminate at the edges as the layers of the natural stuff crack open. Then small chips break off and you start to see cracks developing farther into the material as the natural laminations lift open.
That problem is an easy fix with common SuperGlue.
Flood those edge with the stuff and the horn will draw the glue deep into the cracks and de-laminations. It will set up nearly instantly and hard. S/Glue works it's best on natural materials like this and your fingers.
It works well to repair the worm holes too.
Squirt a little down in there,,some are quite deep and twist around. So a bit of the glue helps re-inforce the area as well.
You can let that dry and use colored epoxy to top the hole(s) off and cover them.
I use Bicarb of Soda mixed with a little black coloring (black copy toner) to fill the holes and larger cracks.
added
The use of 'Wood Flour' in grips and butt plates was during the mfg'r of these items made from Gutta Percha, a natural latex material.
Wood Flour being nothing more than Wood Dust and was a filler for the latex hard rubber like substance.
'Hard Rubber' grips and butt plates are again another substance. These are vulcanized rubber and the early name for the product was Vulcanite. They don't show the normal swirl and combination of colors that Gutta Percha often does.
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