The mouse gun conundrum.

[Bald1]

There is a time and a place for mouse guns, whether .25 ACP or .32 ACP or .22 LR because they used to come in all three flavors and I think that they still do.

Wait - as a matter of fact there is a fourth choice - .22 Magnum:

Pictured above are a Beretta 950BS/.25 ACP, a CZ Duo (WW2 German era)/,25 ACP, a PSP Browning/.25ACP [*** and long gone), and a Seecamp/.32ACP. I then added a High Standard .22 Magnum derringer when I remembered it as I was typing I happen to have two of those; one is NIB and in the original box. The one pictured I have shot and I carry. See below.*

The OP just wants to decide what to sell. He wasn't discussing the pros and cons of carrying a mouse gun. So, clearly, if there is no sentimental value and it's not a special "collection" the only criteria that matters is how much money he can get to buy another gun that he wants. Ipso facto, I'd sell the Colts. Top dollar. Done and done.

Col. Cooper aside, the first rule of gun fighting has always been "have a gun". If you cannot think of a scenario where the only gun you can conceal is a mouse gun then you haven't seen everything or been everywhere.

In beach clothes is a fun example.

*In pajamas and a robe is another example if you hang around the house dressed that way and want to have a firearm on your person. Especially if you might go outside to toss the trash.

How about my favorite - you work somewhere that forbids firearms and you don't care about that rule but certainly don't want to get caught. I have decades of experience in that realm.

Saying it has to be a .357 Magnum, or has to start with a 4, means you go around without a gun way more than I do.

I agree with all of this. As for Cooper. He said a lot of things. I don’t care about any of it. I get tired of all the blow hard experts telling us the correct way to protect ourselves. Stop it already!!!!
Carry what you’re comfortable with. Collect what you want. I’ve carried a 25 with tip up barrel many times. I’ve carried a 22 mag mini revolver a lot as well. I have a 32 Tomcat with crimson trace grips that my wife loves to shoot because it’s easy.

 

[BC38]

keep the one that shoots the best, and the one that conceals the best. At least they don't take up much room in the safe.

The Kel Tec 32 is a very concealable gun. Brother carried one when he ran.

Both good advice and good info.

I have both the KelTek P32 and the P3AT. Same frame just different caliber slides, barrels, and magazines.

The 32 is easier to shoot due to the lesser recoil, but the 380 packs more punch.

 

[Model 15-4ever]

...
The Seecamp owners manual was written by Larry and was updated as new calibers were introduced. It is a refreshing read. It is still just as applicable today - pages 1-5 specifically.

https://seecamp.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Seecamp-Manual.pdf
...

From Page 2:
"All DA only pistols, more properly referred to as trigger cocking only pistols, are the grandkids of either the Czech CZ36/CZ45 design if they have hammers or the French LeFrancais design if they are striker fired. The LWS is a descendant of the Czech line. The Glocks and the Keltecs are descendants of the French line. Credit should be given where credit is due."

Except that the Kel-Tecs are not striker-fired, they are hammer-fired....

From Page 3:
"If you can’t hit the target without pointing and shooting, be sure to have a good lawyer lined up to explain why your life was threatened at a distance where you needed sights. Sights are an offensive tool and the LWS is not an offensive weapon."

Hmmm. I think the father of Modern Pistolcraft and the results of gunfights would disagree....

I quit reading at that point. An interesting read indeed. But not an applicable one.

 

[Alpo]

The first story I read, and I have read different stories about this, said that Bella was out picking berries. And the grizzly bear decided he wanted some berries. So she ducked down in the berry patch and waited. The bear ate a bunch and then lay down to take a nap. And she crept up next to him and shot him in the side of the head. And reloaded and shot him again. And again. 7 or 8 times I think.

 

[Alpo]

I did not realize we were on a second page. My previous post was a response to the last post on page one.

 

[hardknocks]

Mousguns

The CZ runs like a top.
Seecamp 32 seems good so far.
Walther a few jams the springs may be 100 years old.
The Dickson detective is good with S&B and Aquila.
Have had 5 keltec p32, many rounds downrange never a jam. Still got a couple and Family has the rest.
Cool guns to own for me. Never tried to shoot a grizzly bear, yet ?

 

[BC38]

From Page 2:
"All DA only pistols, more properly referred to as trigger cocking only pistols, are the grandkids of either the Czech CZ36/CZ45 design if they have hammers or the French LeFrancais design if they are striker fired. The LWS is a descendant of the Czech line. The Glocks and the Keltecs are descendants of the French line. Credit should be given where credit is due."

Except that the Kel-Tecs are not striker-fired, they are hammer-fired....

Yes they are. They don't have an exposed or spurred hammer, but they do have a hammer.

 

[Oldsalt66]

I think you're getting two different things mixed up. Bella Twin, , since she was Canadian, would be First Nations and not native American, kill the grizzly bear with a single shot 22 rifle using 22 longs.


And then there was a Colt advertisement that claimed somebody had killed a black bear with a 1908 pocket 25.

Larger Pic.

 

[Wengayoo]

Love this thread, meeses are great to collect and fun to shoot. I have a 1939 FN Browning and 1920 Colt vest pocket and love them. The history behind some of these, especially my Browning 1939 that may have been used in EU during WWII, is cool. I bought the Colt 1920 because that was the year my Dad was born. I am looking at a S&W 61-3 to add to the collection, just because I like the looks of them. Mouse guns, whatever caliber, would probably scare off a punk that wanted to take my wallet while walking the dog .

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Have a Beretta 21a. Probably not! Mine’s not that reliable.
The smallest reliable 22 I own is my Ruger LCP. Load it with 40 Grain MiniMags, what’s not to like?
Moving up, Ruger LCP Max. The only 380 I ever owned!
Then we get to the Runt Kahr. 9mm. PM9. Reliable as your Mother! 6+1 rounds. I also have 7 and 8 round mags.
Moving a head we get to SIG 365s and Glock 43x.
Then from there - J Frames, K, L, N and etc.

 

[robertrwalsh]

This thread has wandered a bit, but I am suitably impressed that the general topic is of enough interest to enough people they are happy to jump in. Makes me feel that I have justified my existence for the day.

 

[robvious]

I love meeses to pieces... have a few.. have only carried one that I recall.. and since it is a 9mm, I don't think it counts in this discussion... but a Beretta 21A is really cool..

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Have a Beretta 21a. Probably not! Mine’s not that reliable.
The smallest reliable 22 I own is my Ruger LCP. Load it with 40 Grain MiniMags, what’s not to like?
Moving up, Ruger LCP Max. The only 380 I ever owned!
Then we get to the Runt Kahr. 9mm. PM9. Reliable as your Mother! 6+1 rounds. I also have 7 and 8 round mags.
Moving a head we get to SIG 365s and Glock 43x.
Then from there - J Frames, K, L, N and etc.

I feel my CW380 (for sure!) & PM40 (posibly?) should qualify from a mus musculus standpoint...

The Bobcat's reliability in 22lr can be improved with the better ammo choices: cci mini-mags are pretty hard to beat in my experience. Other, less expensive ammo is usually fine at the range or for practice purposes, but three or four mags of mini-mags at the end of the sessions helps my confidence.

Like any semi-automatic in 22lr, keeping it cleaned and lubricated is vital.

Cheers!

 

[boykinlp]

Pocket gun or belt gun ? I’ve always been interested in these little holsters and have found quite a few more since this photo was taken. Most of these were made by Heiser, two of them were types used by the OSS in WW II. Apocryphally German officers were issued .25 pistols to kill themselves should the need arise.

Regards,

Great Picture John! Please add your new “pickups” in a picture soon than later!
Larry

 

[.38SuperMan]

There’s just something addictive about these little guys I have a half dozen and will buy a few more as I run across the. I’m pretty much into 22 caliber which will limit my purchases but will continue the search. And use on occasion I carry one. It was around 1981 that I bought my first and still have it with all the goodies. It’s a Freedom Arms 22 revolver with the brass belt buckle and I even have the wooden grips, an extra cylinder ( both 22 LR) and the leather belt holster.

 

[Glenn R. McMannly]

Col Cooper considered 9mm a minor caliber. As do I. The street numbers speaks for themselves. .357 Magnum and .45 ACP and to some extent the 10mm are potent manstoppers.

 

[alwslate]

Col Cooper was very fond of his own opinions. He used to write than he would prefer a stout cane for SD over the .25 ACP. Sure he would I bet he would have been willing to take a round of .25 FMJ in the chest to prove it, NOT! The .25 may not be the best caliber for SD but there are many cases on record in which a single round of .25 FMJ to the chest has rendered the person shot DRT. The .25 will completely penetrate the upper torso 100 % of the time on a frontal close up chest shot. Shot placement and penetration are what counts.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

As I noted earlier, anyone who insists on only carrying large caliber handguns is often going to find times when carrying a handgun is virtually impossible. Mouse guns are designed to fill that gap. Fight stopping is what you need a gun for and almost any gun will do. Being a large caliber snob means you're going to be defenseless some of the time. YMMV

 

[KarmannGhia]

My mouse gun collection includes Beretta Minx, Jetfire, Bobcat, and Tomcat; Colt vest pocket; Astra Cub; Baby Browning (copy); Sterling 302; 2 NAA mini revolvers and 2 Freedom Arms mini revolvers. I love them all (as range toys). Some are more reliable than others. I did carry the Colt and Jetfire (in my youth, when I didn't want to get caught with a gun and before the advent of the Ruger LCP). I am still not getting rid of any of them.

As to the effectiveness of the mouse gun. I responded to a suicide where the deceased had to fire his NAA mini revolver in 22mag a second time into the center of his chest to get his desired result.

 

[Qwerty357]

Baxter6551: thanks for the history correction. I had the Ludwig Seecamp WWII in my noggin wrong. Thanks for setting the record straight.