For sure 44 Russian or 44-40

[desertjoe]

I found this over the weekend buried in a display case at a gun shop paid $700 the had never been properly cleaned it still had packing grease on the cylinder post, tight like it just came out of the factory but there's pitting in the barrel and cylinders from lack of care. I love it and I will shoot it just want to make sure it shoots the 44 Russian SN 27XX

 

[glowe]

Chances are it is a 44 DA Frontier, 44-40. Both the 44 DA Russian and 44 DA Frontier started numbering "1", but the early 44 DA Russians came with a short cylinder (1 7/16") until later in production, too short to chamber a 44-40. There is no exact serial number that tells us when the 44 Russians started using the longer cylinder, but since the 44-40 Frontier started production in 1886, chances are that would have been the earliest time-frame that the long cylinder was available. The 44 DA Russian 1886 serial numbers were around 15,000. You have the longer 1 9/16" cylinder, so get hold of a 44-40 cartridge and try it. 44-40 will not fully chamber in a 44 Russian cylinder.

 

[desertjoe]

I believe I got it for a pretty good price what's your opinion?

 

[Masterpiece]

Chances are it is a 44 DA Frontier, 44-40. You have the longer 1 9/16" cylinder.

Gary,

Not often do I disagree...Although in this particular instance I believe you're incorrect assuming it's a .44 DA Frontier!!

Reason being...Using the Attached Photo I've posted for reference...If you enlarge the OP's Photo & look closely I believe you'll see the difference in the Top Strap!! I also believe the angle at which the photo was taken has a lot to do with why you assumed it had the Long Top Strap...Being somewhat misleading!!

It also looks to have Shorter Cylinder Flutes associated with a Std. .44 DA!! Hopefully the OP will come back with the Cyl. Length to verify either way!!

I've been wrong before although in this particular instance I believe the Revolver to be a Std. .44 Dbl.-Action chambered for a .44 Russian Cartridge!!

 

[glowe]

I dug out a 44-40 and it definitely has longer flutes, so that is a 44 Russian. I think the angle of the photo hid the true diameter of the cylinder, making is look longer. I usually can visually compare the diameter of the cylinder to the length and come up with the caliber.

As for value, it appears to me that the metal has been cleaned and no original finish remains. It also is now determined that it is a 44 Russian and much more common than the 44 Frontier. Lastly, values are all over the place, with one poor example selling for $1000 at one auction and another better condition gun selling for under $500. The last Frontier I have was purchased in Jan 2016 for $400 and photos are below. That one had home-made stocks and an old silver dime fashioned into a front sight, a common practice back in the late 1800s.

As Masterpiece describes, you can compare my 44-40 cylinder with yours to see what he is stating.

 

[JSR III]

The key here is the length of the flutes. The Frontier flutes extend to about the rear of the curve in the trigger whereas the other 44's, the rear of the flutes lines up with the front of where the trigger comes out of the frame.

Since I am new to the antiques, is there a model called the .44 Russian or is it some other model and merely shoots the .44 Russian cartridge?

 

[iby]

da prices

After reading some of these posts I fell like a chump.
I have a 44 russian da and a 44=40 da.
they both cost me around $1800.

 

[Masterpiece]

I usually can visually compare the diameter of the cylinder to the length and come up with the caliber.

Gary,

Using Cyl. Diameters vs. Cyl. Lengths of the the Two Variations of these Early .44 Dbl.-Actions for comparison generally isn't the preferable way to go!!

Especially Given the Cyl. Diameters are...Within a few thousandths or so...More often than not nearly the same!! That is with the exception of Cylinders having quite a bit of wear from use...Something to keep in mind for the future reference!!

 

[Masterpiece]

Since I am new to the antiques, is there a model called the .44 Russian or is it some other model and merely shoots the .44 Russian cartridge?

James,

The actual given name for a .44 Dbl-Action as the OP posted...Is a .44 Dbl-Action First Model (and/or) New Model Navy which is chambered for the .44 Russian Cartridge!! The other most commonly found .44 Dbl.-Action of the period...Chambered for the .44 WCF (and/or) .44-40 Cartridge...Is referred to as a .44 Dbl.-Action Frontier!!

There are 2 Other Variations of these Early Dbl-Action Lg-Frame Top-Breaks...Both being considered somewhat Scarce to Rare...Those being a .44 Dbl-Action Wesson Favorite chambered in .44 Russian & a .38 Winchester Dbl.-Action...The latter being chambered for the .38 WCF/.38-40 Cartridge...Hope this helps!!

 

[JSR III]

James,

The actual given name for a .44 Dbl-Action as the OP posted...Is a .44 Dbl-Action First Model (and/or) New Model Navy which is chambered for the .44 Russian Cartridge!! The other most commonly found .44 Dbl.-Action of the period...Chambered for the .44 WCF (and/or) .44-40 Cartridge...Is referred to as a .44 Dbl.-Action Frontier!!

There are 2 Other Variations of these Early Dbl-Action Lg-Frame Top-Breaks...Both being considered somewhat Scarce to Rare...Those being a .44 Dbl-Action Wesson Favorite chambered in .44 Russian & a .38 Winchester Dbl.-Action...The latter being chambered for the .38 WCF/.38-40 Cartridge...Hope this helps!!

That is about as clear as one could make it. Thanks.....

 

[desertjoe]

Sorry it took me awhile to chime back in. I appreciate all the posts. I'm leaning towards it being a Russian version the cylinder appears to be around 1 7/16 in length. As far as value it was worth it to me what sold me on it was the low 4 digit sn and the fact once I got it home and did a good cleaning on it including the packing grease still on the cylinder post and found it to be a fine working weapon. I've been a spinner shooter for a long time with the exception of the solid hammer I will take the action of this pistol over most modern spinners. I will be shooting this gun. Can't help to believe that maybe one box was ran through this gun then put up dirty in grandpas saddle bag

 

[glowe]

Gary,

Using Cyl. Diameters vs. Cyl. Lengths of the the Two Variations of these Early .44 Dbl.-Actions for comparison generally isn't the preferable way to go.

It usually works for me. Remember that the 44-40 and later long 44 Russian cylinders are almost square. Diameter is 1 5/8" and 1 9/16" long. The 44 Russian cylinder is the same diameter, but 1/8" shorter and a noticeable difference when looking straight-on.

Flutes should work, except when one forgets how long is long enough without having a ready reference.

 

[S&WsRsweet]

Congrats on tne fine old smith . Thanks for posting I have enjoyed the pics and the education.

 

[JSR III]

I think that a lot of this depends on the angle of the photo as well. When I look at Gary's photos of his 44-40, it almost appears in the first photo that the flutes line up with the most forward portion of the trigger whereas in the second photo they seem to be more in line with the rear of the trigger curve.

The photo almost has to be with the barrel on a horizontal level line so that the relationship between the flute and trigger can be seen. I would love it if you could post that same gun with it positioned in this fashion just to see if my theory is correct.

 

[desertjoe]

here's a few more pics



[/ATTACH]

 

[glowe]

Cylinder under 1.5" long, so definitely an early 44 Russian, probably shipped in 1881.