for the cannon shooters

steveno

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when you look at a video of cannons being shot during WW2 or Vietnam everybody is really busy loading and shooting and it doesn't appear that anybody is making downrange adjustments. is there a built in deflection for the shell after it is fired or are they just making the hole deeper where the shell lands?
 
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Probably videos after data's been dialed in, and 'fire for effect'
has been called...or maybe just H & I?

Where's a redleg when ya need him?!? :D
 
when you look at a video of cannons being shot during WW2 or Vietnam everybody is really busy loading and shooting and it doesn't appear that anybody is making downrange adjustments. is there a built in deflection for the shell after it is fired or are they just making the hole deeper where the shell lands?


Speaking as someone who's actually done this for a living, the projectile comes out of the ube just like a bullet from a gun there's no guidance package on it at all unless it's a copperhead.

So every time the gun fires it moves just a little bit that's going to throw off your firing solution. The usual formula is for every one mil (18 mils to a degree) you're off at the gun you will go off one yard for every thousand yards traveled at the point of impact. (It's actually more complicated than that. FDC has to factor in altitude temperature wind direction known performance characteristics that lot of powder and a couple other things that I don't remember right now)

Depending on the situation most artillery is fired with a variable time or proximity fuse and never actually hits the ground. The VT fuses we used were designed to detonate at a given time or 35 feet off the ground whichever happens first.

And finally as the point of impact shifts there's a Forward Observer up there watching and calling in corrections.

Oh and lest I forget every time you drop the tube to reload it takes you off your firing solution and you have to dial it right back in anyway
 
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so is there an optical sight that is used? it seems like whenever they show a picture of a mortar being fired that there is some kind of an optical sight somebody is using.
 
so is there an optical sight that is used? it seems like whenever they show a picture of a mortar being fired that there is some kind of an optical sight somebody is using.

Okay this is a little complicated. When the cannon is in place its exact position relative to the North Pole is plotted. The exact angle of the cannon tube relative to Polar North is also plotted. For the purposes of our discussion that angle become zero.

It actually takes two sights to aim a cannon one sight is for deflection plus or minus from 0. To aim the Cannon for that you look through an optic sight with essentially a crosshairs at a fixed aiming Point called the collimator. Which also has a numbered cross hair on it.

So FDC give you a reflection 0 + 15 ( that's not actually how they read the deflection but I'm simplifying things) so the Gunner on the Canon adjust his sight - 0 + 15 and then as he's looking through the site which is moved away from the collimator to move the entire cannon Tube until the sight lines back up on the zero on the collimator. At that point the cannon is laid for deflecti
The elevation setting is essentially a level. FDC gives the assistant gunner a quadrant of elevation say 435. The assistant Gunner simply adjust his sight quadrant to 435 nd raises the tube until the bubble levels.

At that point the gunner makes any fine adjustments for deflection

Once the Gunners site is at zero on the collimator and the assistant Gunner sight is level that whatever quadrant he was given the cannon is aimed and ready to fire.


Once all cannons report loaded and ready to fire after FDC gives the command for everyone to fire at once.
 
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my apartment is a couple of blocks from the town square and on one of the main streets to the square. I'm quite sure that it would cause a lot of talk.
 
In those old newsreels you seldom see ear or eye protection. The concussive effect has to take a toll as well. Of course the problems aren't usually as bad on the sending end as they are on the receiving end!!

My ears ring all the time, I can't use a telephone, I listen to music and I can't hear half of it.
 
Okay this is a little complicated. When the cannon is in place its exact position relative to the North Pole is plotted. The exact angle of the cannon tube relative to Polar North is also plotted. For the purposes of our discussion that angle become zero.

It actually takes two sights to aim a cannon one sight is for deflection plus or minus from 0. To aim the Cannon for that you look through an optic sight...(complicated indirect fire hocus-pocus stuff deleted for brevity)

And that's why they only show 'em firing off rounds, in the videos! :D
 
My ears ring all the time, I can't use a telephone, I listen to music and I can't hear half of it.

Thanks for your service. Sorry your hearing was so damaged. The irony, is they would not let me in the service, because I couldn't pass a hearing test.
 
Wouldn't just one round from a howitzer going off close by wreck your hearing for life?? I just can't imagine how those guys shot those things off through the whole war without any hearing protection at all... just blows my mind.

Hell, call me a wussy boy but I wear ear pro even when shooting my .22!

Please see my post 11
 
I've seen photos of arty crews holding their hands over their ears and their mouths open at firing, to help with the noise. I'm sure it was of limited usefulness, though.

Interesting thread. Thanks to all you tube guys who served.
 
There is no law prohibiting you from owning a cannon. The rounds are what's regulated

Correct. Whether it's a 40mm HE grenade or a 105mm anti tank round, you can own and transfer the rounds, you just have to complete the paperwork, pay the $200 tax stamp and wait for the paperwork to go through, and you need to do that for EACH round, on top of the actual purchase cost of the round.

It would be much nicer if you just had to register and pay the tax stamp on the gun itself.

As it is, it makes firing prohibited rounds in your M203, your artillery piece, or the main gun on your tank a fairly expensive proposition.
 
At Fort Sill, Oklahoma mid 1966 training to be an FO and prior trained on crew for 105 mm howitzer. We had the brass, then you inserted the "powder charge" which was actually hand size fabric bags of powder, at the same time the Gunner and A-Gunner were adjusting the azimuth and the optic per the FO's call in coordinates. Another crew member was "setting" the fuse on top of the actual round for whatever the mission called for (time delay, time on target, air burst, etc.).

Sounds complicated and it was but still I recall we could crank out some serious "stuff" at the rate of 3, 4 per minute.

Hearing??? WHAT DID YOU SAY???? I don't recall any hearing protection, at any time from basic in early 1966 through 1974 when I got out the second time. True even shooting competitively in 1967 for the 3rd Armored Rifle Team.

I was typical for the Army....trained Artillery at Ft. Sill. changed by the receiving clerk at first permanent duty station to 11B20 ground pounder rifleman.

At reunions or on the street, the way to spot an ex-Arty man is to just look for BOTH hearing aids....us ground pounders usually only have 1.
 
I never used ear protection for lawn work, chain saw work or shooting during my early life. Now at somewhere between Social Security and death I have very poor hearing in my left ear so much so that I must use the right when talking on the phone.

We did not take the care that many do today to protect our hearing but when you are young you think that you are invincible.

Hopefully as we teach our kids and grandkids to shoot we will require them to wear eye and ear protection and thus eliminate this issue for the future generations. ;)
 
when you look at a video of cannons being shot during WW2 or Vietnam everybody is really busy loading and shooting and it doesn't appear that anybody is making downrange adjustments. is there a built in deflection for the shell after it is fired or are they just making the hole deeper where the shell lands?

I'm not sure your question was answered directly, but even with perfect re-alignment of the gun there is some dispersion, just like there is with a rifle, so you won't put the next round in the same hole as the last one.

Accuracy is a relative thing. On the one hand the accuracy of even an unguided artillery round, when using modern firing tables, is often more accurate than the surveying on the map, so you'll need to fire some registration rounds to work out the errors.

On the other hand with unguided artillery rounds and ranges over about 10,000 meters you'll be doing really well to land just half the rounds within 100 meters of the target.

That's not a bad thing however as like a machine gun, an artillery piece is an area weapon and having some dispersion is part of the plan. It's much more effective spreading six rounds over a 100 or 200 meter impact area than dropping five rounds in the same crater made by the first round, particularly then the kill radius of the round for troops in the open might be 30 to 50 meters (50m for a 155, an area 100 meters in diameter). The idea is to saturate the entire area with shrapnel, and as such you are engaging an area target not a point target.

Fire control computers on field artillery are a fairly recent advance that is designed to give a point fire capability when required. However, if true precision is needed there are now GPS guided rounds that are accurate enough to land inside their own kill radius. The downside is that they are expensive, so they won't be used unless that high degree of accuracy is really needed and a less expensive barrage of unguided shells won't get the job done.

The idea behind firing as a battery, is that all the rounds will arrive at the same time, providing less warning as to precisely where they will land, making all the rounds equally effective.

Some modern quick firing self propelled artillery can deliver multiple rounds on different trajectories to the same target, so that a single gun can deliver rounds that will all impact at the same time. That's a handy capability to have, particularly when the gun needs to shoot and scoot to avoid counter fire.

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As noted above some rounds are fuzed to detonate above ground as it is much more effective for antipersonnel rounds. However rounds can also be fuzed to explode on contact, or with a slight delay to allow them to penetrate before exploding. That's much more effective on buildings, bunkers, roads, runways, etc.
 
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